Nice people thread part 4 - sugar and spice and all things

Generali

tomterm8 wrote: »

It's quite interesting watching what happened in America. They took away the safety net, and unemployment is at the highest it has ever been. There are more people on food stamps than ever before - more people depending on the state for a food hand out than ever did in the great depression. It has worked so well that there are more people who rely on charity simply to be able to eat than any civilised nation I know of...

And it really does not seem to have really helped their deficit either.

I don't know, everything I've seen is that these policies don't make the average person in the society better off, happier, or give them a better life in any way.

It doesn't even, ultimately, help business... because many of these people turn out not to be willing to beg on the street,or starve to death. There is a reason why America's prison population is 8 times higher as a percentage of population than China's. It isn't just because of drugs. For many people, the prisons are the safety net.

Sorry to bring a little discordance to the NPT but this just isn't true. Almost all of it is wrong or misleading.

Unemployment in the 1930s in the US remained above 10% from 1931-1941, was above 20% for 3-4 years and above 15% for most of that decade.

US unemployment is currently 9.1% having peaked at 10.1% in October 2009.

The safety net hasn't been taken away, in fact during the recession the period of time that welfare benefits were payable for was extended (twice IIRC). Food stamps are as important a part of the US safety net as cash benefits.

You are right to say that more people are using food stamps than ever before but the population of the US was 130,000,000 (ex-Philippines) in 1939 when food stamps were introduced and 20,000,000 were using them. Now the population is well over 300,000,000 and 35,000,000 are on food stamps. Food stamps are much more entrenched than they were in the early years too so likely to be used by more people.

Americans live in a democracy and for the most part support the general direction of policy IME (small Government, low taxes, tough law enforcement) if not every specific policy. You may not like that but it's not really your problem.

GDB2222

I don't understand how 'Western' governments can stimulate recovery without first doing something about the exchange rate issues? The stimulus is being applied, but it's trickling off to China (and other BRICK countries) because the Yuan is 40% under-valued. The US are proposing doing something about it (much too late), but they are afraid of creating a trade war apparently. Can someone explain to me what the present situation is, if it's not a trade war?

tomterm8

Generali wrote: »

Sorry to bring a little discordance to the NPT but this just isn't true. Almost all of it is wrong or misleading.

Unemployment in the 1930s in the US remained above 10% from 1931-1941, was above 20% for 3-4 years and above 15% for most of that decade.

US unemployment is currently 9.1% having peaked at 10.1% in October 2009.

With the greatest respect, are you comparing apples and satsumas?

Are you claiming that the measures of unemployment in the 1930's are comparable with current measures? Because, I have never heard anyone claim they are.

And to be frank, the idea that America is doing fantastically well because they are not doing as badly as Hoover scares me, because I don't know any economist ten years ago who would say doing better than Hoover was a measure of economic policy success.

Generali wrote: »

The safety net hasn't been taken away, in fact during the recession the period of time that welfare benefits were payable for was extended (twice IIRC). Food stamps are as important a part of the US safety net as cash benefits.

You are right to say that more people are using food stamps than ever before but the population of the US was 130,000,000 (ex-Philippines) in 1939 when food stamps were introduced and 20,000,000 were using them. Now the population is well over 300,000,000 and 35,000,000 are on food stamps. Food stamps are much more entrenched than they were in the early years too so likely to be used by more people.

Americans live in a democracy and for the most part support the general direction of policy IME (small Government, low taxes, tough law enforcement) if not every specific policy. You may not like that but it's not really your problem.

You're entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to think that I wouldn't want to live in america, and to frankly snort at the idea that America wants or has small government.

American government is anything but small, in my view.

They just spend their money differently, I believe.

Generali

tomterm8 wrote: »

With the greatest respect, are you comparing apples and satsumas?

Are you claiming that the measures of unemployment in the 1930's are comparable with current measures? Because, I have never heard anyone claim they are.

And to be frank, the idea that America is doing fantastically well because they are not doing as badly as Hoover scares me, because I don't know any economist ten years ago who would say doing better than Hoover was a measure of economic policy success.



You're entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to think that I wouldn't want to live in america, and to frankly snort at the idea that America wants or has small government.

American government is anything but small, in my view.

They just spend their money differently, I believe.

I think that perhaps starting a new thread would be the better way to discuss this.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/48123505#Comment_48123505

purch

American government is anything but small

Yes, it's a common misconception that it is.

When I owned a Restaurant/Bar in Tampa I had to report to, and pay numerous Taxes to.....

1. The State of Florida
2. The City of Tampa
3. The U.S. Federal Government
4. The County of Hillsborough

......and I could easily separate that lot into all their various bureaux and departments, and the list would run into the 20's.

Just to renew my Liquor license (licence) annually meant I had to fill in pages and pages of forms, and write loads of checks (cheques).

The annual cost of the license was only about $ 1,000 in total, but as part of that I had to pay the County of Hillsborough $ 45, and the Hillsborough County Sheriffs Dept $ 17 :eek:..........that was on top of about $75 to the Tampa Police Department, and another $100 to the City of Tampa. Of the balance, most went to the Division of Alcoholic Beverages and Tobacco (FL) but some also went to the Federal Government.

Taxes on the whole are low, but the number of different organizations (organisations) who take an interest in what you do, and want a small slice of the pie is huge.

SingleSue

I miss Carolt...I can see a lot of myself pre benefit days in her, my views were pretty similar and I was similarly vocal about it. Obviously, having to rely on benefits changes your mindset somewhat...

I now try to avoid all benefit threads as it only serves to increase my blood pressure and feelings of being the equivalent to something found on the bottom of a shoe, even if my reasons for being reliant on benefits are valid ones. I think I possibly get so touchy about it because I was so vocal and anti single parents on benefits prior to my divorce (and believe me, some of the things I used to say would curl your hair - I was just so bloody smug) and I see it as all such a waste of my life and potential and yes, a failing.

Nice to see you again FC and thanks for those words, their father has recently been in contact to let us know when he is finally coming down to see the boys...it will have been almost a year since the last time he saw them and as his prime reason for coming down is not to see the boys, they will probably get to see him for maybe 2 hours in his 3 day trip and that will be it until late next year (unless a friend invites him to a party that is - he will come down for them but not for his own children's special parties).

He could have picked a better weekend to be honest, the weekend he is coming down is the Christmas lights switch on in the town centre and me and the boys have a tradition of going up there to join in the festivities, browse the stalls, enter the raffle and sing carols before doing the count down to the lights being switched on. They may be getting older now and they no longer go to the grotto but they still enjoy the atmosphere of the occasion (erm so do I and I have been seeing it since I was a child!)

He has had them once before on switch on day where he promised me he would still take them to the grotto and to see the lights switched on but his visit to a cash and carry to choose a kettle was more important and they missed out...they have not forgiven him for that.

One thing that does annoy me is his attitude, if the boys do well in an exam or something, he will take the credit for it, anything not quite so good and all of a sudden it is my fault...James admits that if his father was still here, he probably wouldn't still be living at home and would probably have already left school and not with the grades he got...ex hubby was never one for their education, always poo pooing the educational stuff I did with them, saying I was being boring and they didn't really need to know different languages or it was for the school to teach them percentages etc.

Anyway, half term over and normality has returned, they ate me out of house and home last week! And a month into youngest's normal going into hospital time and he is doing ok but I am dreading his first bad cold of the winter, my sister has managed to pick one up and is very ill with it...if youngest gets that one, it will def be a hospital stay.

LydiaJ

Generali wrote: »

I think that perhaps starting a new thread would be the better way to discuss this.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/48123505#Comment_48123505

Thanks Generali

My kids' half term is over, but mine isn't quite. I am enjoying the peace and quiet, but not the cold. My heating system has a wireless thermostat that you can carry about and put in different places, and just at the moment I can't find it. I seem to have turned it down rather low just before losing it, and I always feel colder when I'm tired.

iB1

LydiaJ wrote: »

Thanks Generali

My kids' half term is over, but mine isn't quite. I am enjoying the peace and quiet, but not the cold. My heating system has a wireless thermostat that you can carry about and put in different places, and just at the moment I can't find it. I seem to have turned it down rather low just before losing it, and I always feel colder when I'm tired.

Is it a British Gas type one with 4 AA batteries in the back? When I bought my house last year in November, I was cleaning and knocked it off a table and the battery compartment split and all the batteries tumbled out.

I spent half a day super-gluing various bits of plastic back together to get the connections wired up again. Not a good start to home ownership :rotfl:

lemonjelly

sss555s wrote: »

LydiaJ is "hot" .

LydiaJ wrote: »

sss555s, can I quote the first three words of your post out of context?

Why haven't you updated your sig?:)

lemonjelly

Wheezy wrote: »

We're popping over to Belgium next week for a couple of days, but driving.
Need to stock up on Rodenbach, Duvel, Mort Subite, Orval, Special Palm, Leffe, Hoegaarden, Grimbergen Blond.... :beer:

I don't know what any of these things are...:o

Doozergirl wrote: »

Yes. My talent is just staring at it all.

My talent (so I am told) is that I can identify all chocolates in quality street/roses etc by sight alone, without reference to the instructions that come with these tins.

I have been tested, & passed every time.:o