Vent:Store staff told me they would search me

hollydays

sorry,op.not referring to you,or your post,what i was agreeing with was the post who explained that its very easy by a process of elimination to work out what is,or is not setting the alarms off.I say this as someone who tried to leave a store three times,even though the security guard was checking each time.All he needed to do was put each of my five bags through,one by one.

bowdengr37

The most likely suspect for setting off the alarm going into a store are car keys, mobile phones, PDAs etc.

If the alarm goes off when you enter, I would suggest calling the security guard over, removing such items from your pockets and asking him/her to hold them whilst you pass through again. If the alarm still goes off, there may be a problem, but you have shown your willingness to be reasonable. If it doesn't go off, once you have removed these items, try passing each item through the alarm sensor individually. This may identify a problem item which you may be able to leave with the security guard, or pass it to him/her when leaving, to prove that you haven't stolen anything. Having a hissy-fit about 'your rights' etc, rather than trying these simple measures, could be seen as suspicious behaviour and you might get followed through the store by security, which would be incredibly embarrassing but NOT illegal.

All this talk of 'knowing your rights' is fine but whatever happened to a bit of common sense and reasonableness.

With regards to your rights to refuse a search; No, the security does not have the right to physically search you. Yes, the police do have the right if they SUSPECT you have committed a crime.

Remember, you are entering THEIR premises. They have the choice whether to admit you or not. They can ask you to leave if they believe that you may be a cause for concern to their business, safety or security.

Storck

hollydays wrote: »

Even more tosh,why would pins in bones and injected birth control set off a system,do you understand how these systems work?

Actually yes I do know how these things work and when they we had new ones fitted recently they were two of the things that was given by the manufacturers that could sometimes set the machines off. So do you know how they work?

powerful_Rogue

hollydays wrote: »

absolute tosh

Care to expand on your reply?

Its not "tosh" at all.

The powers of security guards are the same powers as any other member of the public will have, they can make a 'citizens arrest.' They do not have any special kind of power, however their role is being looked at constantly and new developments might mean that they may be given more power in the near future.


Their powers have changed recently and are a lot more complex with much of it yet to be tried in court, but basically security guards have the power to detain a person who they believe to have committed an indictable offence. This means an offence which can be tried in crown court.


This covers many criminal offences including assaults (excluding common assault), theft and criminal damage.
Reasonable force in the circumstances may be used by a security guard to detain the person.
Several security guards are permitted to forcefully detain someone as long as the belief that this person has committed an indictable offence is “reasonable”. They can detain you inside a store as long as they have reasonable belief that you have committed an offence.


Reasonable belief means that a security guard cannot forcefully detain you unless their reasons for doing so are fair for example if you were seen taking something and hiding it somewhere on your person. To simply look suspicious would not be a reasonable belief.
source

Sally_A

Well, I've got to nip down the shop and will have to take a different vehicle as OH is using mine today. So hopefully will be able to determine if it is my car key - will take my big handbag too, then I'll know if there is something else in there setting it off.

Can't possibly think what though.

hollydays

powerful_Rogue wrote: »

Care to expand on your reply?

Its not "tosh" at all.

The legal definition of whats " reasonable", isn't as simple as you think it is.Internet sites are not the place to get legal advice.

hollydays

Storck wrote: »

Actually yes I do know how these things work and when they we had new ones fitted recently they were two of the things that was given by the manufacturers that could sometimes set the machines off. So do you know how they work?

Which system would this be.....

powerful_Rogue

hollydays wrote: »

The legal definition of whats " reasonable", isn't as simple as you think it is.

I didnt say it was.

A good indication is "If you explained the situation to someone in the street, would the believe it was reasonable"

You also have to ensure your reaction to the situation is proportionate and necessary.

Ignoring the original posters situation, if some had entered the shop and no alarm sounded, but then upon leaving the alarm went off and they refused to have their bags searched, that would give me reasonable ground to believe they may have stolen an item from the store.

Azari

powerful_Rogue wrote: »

A good indication is "If you explained the situation to someone in the street, would the believe it was reasonable"

You stand the best chance of getting the question "is it reasonable?" answered if you are on the Clapham bus route.

hollydays

but this post IS about the ops situation.

Its also reasonable to look at a specific situation as a whole.
If I went into a shop and set an alarm off,and refused to have my bag searched,its reasonable to assume there may be more than one reason for that,and in your example,(hyperthetical) you quote leaving the shop.
By your logic what about this example-a person enters a shop,sets the alarms off and refuses to be searched.


Is that reasonable to assume they have stolen something,from the shop-or any shop.no,the only reasonable thing we can assume is that something on them MAY have set the alarm off,or the alarm system is faulty,according to others, its REASONABLE (!?)to believe it MAY be a metal pin,birth control,keys,library tickets, a buggy,oh yes,I have even heard of a piercing in a private place (!) Its not reasonable to automatically assume they have stolen.Each situation is different.

.As I said the internet is not the place for lay people to try to disect the law,thats for lawyers