Seller won't refund until RM claim is processed

masonic

In 8 years, this is my first problem with an ebay seller. Apologies in advance for the long post...

I bought a fairly inexpensive 'Buy it now' item from quite a big business seller on ebay. The seller shipped by RM 2nd class on the 30th May. After 2 weeks waiting, I exchanged messages with the seller through ebay, checked at the sorting office etc, and we agreed it was lost in the post.

I started to get a little concerned when the seller emailed me a scan of the proof of postage as if he was proving to me he'd fulfilled his end of the bargain. I responded to clearly state that I wanted a replacement item or refund from him. 24 hours passed with no response, so I opened a case through ebay (I know I would have been better off going through Paypal, but it just didn't enter my mind at the time).

The seller responded to the ebay case to say that he was not comfortable sending another item to me. He has put in a claim to RM, but he will only refund me after he knows RM is going to pay out because he's had a couple of claims recently where buyers have ignored RM's investigation and RM has consequently refused his claim.

I replied to this to politely state that I will fully cooperate with RM, but I was not willing to wait that long for my refund. At this point, I feel a neg is well deserved, so I left: "Item lost in post. Seller will only refund after Royal Mail pay him compensation" - I think that is fair.

Today, the seller updates the ebay case:-

The seller has responded to your case with delivery information.
Postal service: Royal Mail
Delivery date: 31 May, 2011

Included in this was a message from the seller, quite upset at my leaving him negative feedback, restating that he will not refund me until he knows RM is going to pay out and asking me what I would do in his position.

He also replied to the feedback: "All I ask is that you reply to Royal Mail's investigation letter before I refund"

Of course, I have responded to his message to say that I would refund a buyer immediately if they had not received an item after 3 weeks and he should do the same.

There is one thing that concerns me slightly. The seller has responded with "delivery information" in the ebay case, but it appears he has just put in 'Royal Mail' and set the delivery date to the day after he shipped the item. Could this be a problem?

Is there anything else I should do? I'm not entirely unsympathetic to the seller, but it feels like I am being held to ransom over this RM claim.

Crowqueen

Continue with the case and ignore him. eBay and Paypal usually require proof of delivery rather than merely postage to close any case in the seller's favour.

I would have left the neg at the same point too. From a business seller it sounds like this one will be yet another roadkill statistic who will end up upset on a forum when eBay restrict them. Nothing to lose sleep over or feel sympathetic for - he's in business, while fraud is never good he should expect loss/wastage from time to time and it seems an overreaction to a risk of doing business when involving any distance element.

masonic

Seller has now replied with:-

SO HOW DO YOU WORK OUT I SHOULD REFUND YOUR MONEY
NOW WITH OUT KNOWING YOU WILL REPLY TO THE ROYAL MAIL AND RISK THE CHANCE
OF LOSING ALL MY MONEY AGAIN.SO YOU WILL HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL I GET THE O.K
FROM THE ROYAL MAIL OR LIKE YOU SAY WAIT FOR EBAY TO SORT IT OUT.I AM JUST
FED-UP WITH LAZY PEOPLE NOT DOING THE RIGHT THING AND SENDING BACK THE
ROYAL MAILS LETTER WHICH I SHOULD IMAGINE IS FREE POST ANYWAY

I am tempted to respond to say I will reply to Royal Mail only after I get the OK from ebay that I am being refunded. On second thoughts, I wouldn't do that, but I'm just so annoyed by this seller's paranoid attitude.

techspec

Most people refund first - then claim from Royal Mail.

But with the growing number of claims where the buyer refuses to co-operate with Royal Mail, cosy in the knowledge that they have their refund, i would like to see Ebay/Royal Mail synchronise their refund poicy. Maybe if buyer refuses to respond - paypal take the money back from the buyer?

Why would a buyer refuse to confirm none receipt? The only reason i can think of is they have the item and are not prepared to purger themselves with a big company like Royal Mail. Happened to me. 1st class recorded item worth £38. Buyer says not recieved. Fine i say - refund given. 3 weeks later - royal mail say i am mistaken, as buyer confirms they have the item. I was so mad i sent a letter before action demanding payment back - i got it. Similar case, buyer does not respond. I accept Royal Mails refusal to pay. But 10 months later, i decide to fight it. Letter before action demanding a copy of the signature i paid for - or my money back. Royal mail sent a cheque.

As i have said though , most people, myself included - refund then claim back. I just agree its unfair that the buyer is not required to co-operate with Royal Mail. In most other walks of life - you don't co-operate - you lose out.

techspec

masonic wrote: »

Seller has now replied with:-
I am tempted to respond to say I will reply to Royal Mail only after I get the OK from ebay that I am being refunded. On second thoughts, I wouldn't do that, but I'm just so annoyed by this seller's paranoid attitude.

The guys a fool - ebay will refund you anyway - so hes got a neg and i assume low DSR's for an item you say is of low value - and he will end up refunding anyway.

You can't punish honest buyers for the acts of the dishonest ones - and thats what he's doing.

lisawood78

Have you/can you escalate the case yet?

If not and you can, do so immediately, seller is a fool

theonlywayisup

As has been said, he/she is a fool. You will get your refund, you have already left a neg and hopefully 1*s. So now, I would add insult to injury and let him know I won't be assisting him with any RM claim as he didn't assist with the refund.

masonic

lisawood78 wrote: »

Have you/can you escalate the case yet?

If not and you can, do so immediately, seller is a fool

My case is through ebay, not Paypal (yes, that was a bit of a mistake), so I can only escalate after 10 days. I still live in hope that the seller will think about this some more and see the error of his ways.

candjsmum

I am going through the same at the moment with an item that cost £4. I was given the tracking number and it has obviously got lost in the post. I waited for 6 days to tell seller I hadn't received it and then waited another 4 before telling them it still hadn't been received. He told me he wasn't going to refund but I had to claim through ebay. I didn't, I am now claiming from paypal.
I am a business seller myself, selling items we produce at home, (all above board and a registered business with the tax man), and if at all we ever have a problem with items going astray I always refund or replace. I NEVER tell them to wait. The seller I am having probs with will get a neg and all for £4!!

hermum

What a fool. To risk his ebay business over a low cost item.
OP I would always leave FB at the end of a dispute, without mention of dispute in the FB, as the seller can I believe get it removed. During a dispute sometimes people act so pathetically that there would be more to add. As in this case.

masonic

hermum wrote: »

What a fool. To risk his ebay business over a low cost item.
OP I would always leave FB at the end of a dispute, without mention of dispute in the FB, as the seller can I believe get it removed. During a dispute sometimes people act so pathetically that there would be more to add. As in this case.

I understand your point about delaying feedback until the the end of the dispute, but this is always a bit of a dilemma, since getting the information 'out there' earlier might help others avoid the same pitfall. I would have started a claim earlier if I had any idea the seller would be difficult. I did add a follow-up to my feedback so I could add a bit more detail.

As it happens, I think I was right to leave feedback when I did. It seems to have resonated with the seller far more than anything else I have done. He has sent me an email outside of the ebay system:

Would you tell me what you would do in my situation on how to go about it so other people do not leave me negative feedback and do the right thing like i am trying to do (and send back the royal mails investigation teams letter).please advice it might help me out.

Perhaps he is beginning to see that he is doing himself more harm than good. Though no sign of a refund yet, sadly.

Edit: Looks like I spoke too soon. Seller has sent me another email outside of the ebay system, basically ranting about how he is losing money hand over fist and cannot go on like that so he is taking a hard line with me and won't discuss it with me any more. I guess I'll have to wait for ebay to refund me after all.