Public sector wellcome to the real world

cyclonebri1

I have to sign out of this one. Officially I only have another 15 years life expectancy, this could go on for that long, I'm out of here, , push you t+++s

Koicarp

Regarding the choice made between working in public v private sector. It isn't usually a black and white decision. My wife decided she wanted to be a nurse when she was three, and never changed her mind! I left school and served my time as a bricky, then worked another four years on construction sites. I loved working on the sites, but I was not a good businessman. The lads I worked with would assess prices for extensions etc partly on how rich the householder looked. If he drove a BMW or Merc the extension price instantly rose. They would justify this as "making the most you can out of every job". I tended to just price about £85 per day for my labour plus materials (in the late '80s). When my first kid was born I decided I wanted greater job security and looked at prison/fire/police services but thought none were for me. My first born became ill and was hospitalised and I came into contact with the hospital staff, and got the idea to try nursing. I left work and went to university for 3 years (massive paycut obviously) then started work as a nurse on £11800 per year (by now mid 1990's). The parents of my patients used to often remark on how little I was paid, though I would tell them I was happy with my job (nursing sick children), happy with my pay, job security and pension. I love the work and feel privileged to be able to do it.
Public perception of us has changed dramatically over the last few years though, as has the role, we are the same people (largely) but we carry out a more technical and supervisory role now.
Not too sure what that has to do with the argument, but there you go!

toshy

atush wrote: »

I think you will find that this is against european law. So no discrimination against Polish plumbers and the like.


The only discrimination that is currently legal under EU law is Scottish anti English discrimination where EU Uni students pay nothing, and English students are charged 9K.

Then there is no discrimination against British workers if they too were to apply for jobs in other EU countries.
I'm wondering why you specifically mention Polish plumbers?

toshy

2sides2everystory wrote: »

Much of your argument Moby is the weird vocational choice / lifetime of public service argument which I think can only stand the full test when we are referring to a limited number of actual vocations:

1. Front-line Nursing staff
2. Front-line Ambulance staff
3. Front line Teaching staff
4. Some parts of front line Social Services which by their absolute dedication do prevent Baby Peter type tragedie

Maybe that just proves how little you actually know about the public sector! Perhaps you'd like to try asking those you've listed above of their opinons, particularly how their work would be affected if they did not have support staff to help them?

toshy

Is any-one else wondering, like me, what kind of job 2sides has which allows him so much time to mull things over and post on forums day and evening?

melancholly

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14028848

interesting article about the public versus private sector and pay. essentially, the public sector pays less for those at the top and more for those at the bottom (which i'm ok with, as it goes - that's the right way around!). tough to compare average salaries without including private sector bonuses though, which should really factor in.

fundamentally, the discussion in the article shows that there is no point comparing average private and public sector pay as there need to be plenty of other variables taken into account.

(haven't looked at it yet, but here's the link to the full article:
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/articles/nojournal/public_private_sector_pay_july2011.pdf)

2sides2everystory

melancholy wrote:

... essentially, the public sector pays less for those at the top and more for those at the bottom (which i'm ok with, as it goes - that's the right way around!).

That's not quite how I read it. The BBC article also emhasises that the lower skilled public sector workforce has been somewhat fed to the lions (outsourced). Makes you remaining public sector wallahs sound a bit like some kind of club. Per the article:

"Key to the difference in pay was the higher proportion of higher-paid jobs in the public sector, the ONS said.
Over the past 10 years, the trend for low-skilled jobs to be outsourced to the private sector has continued, pushing up the average wage among public sector workers."

toshy wrote: »

Is any-one else wondering, like me, what kind of job 2sides has which allows him so much time to mull things over and post on forums day and evening?

They might be toshy, but would you like to guess ? I am no burden to the state if that's what you were hoping by your snide remark to suggest

toshy

roysterer wrote: »

Thats big of you depriving children of their education.
What action have you got planned for July and August?????
I think I can guess the answer to that one.

I dont want you to lose your pension or your accrued benefit. Is it unreasonable for you to increase your contributions to what is still a very good pension scheme even after the proposed changes????
Many workers in the private sector never had this option when there final salary schemes ended so why are you against these increases enough to make you want to strike????

As for the carp on here by some claiming that they took the difficult decision as a 16yr-18yr old to join the Public Sector instead of the Private, I bet most could not give a toss what sector they were working in at that age!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for all this Public Servant boll@cks most of you are just doing a Job just like anyone else, just trying to make a living to support your families. Most of us are wage slaves no matter what sector we work in. So stop all this rubbish about sacrifices made to help mankind. Your JOB is teaching, nursing,
Policeman, Fireman, Assistant, Binman, Roadsweeper, Clerk, Probation Officer, etc.
It is a JOB you are doing to make a living nothing more nothing less.
You are doing a JOB that someone else can do when your long gone.
Your JOB is no more important than anyone elses, you will be forgotten the day after you leave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you need to check your facts. UNISON did not strike, nor have our members been balloted for strike action. We have held a series of large protest rallies ON SATURDAYS and we regularly hold local rallies where we distribute leaflets and information. You may have seen these out-side of hospitals etc in recent months? Perhaps you assumed they were picket lines? This action will be continued throughout July and August. I'm unsure why you particularly mentioned those months? Presumably becuase you assume as schools are on holiday we do not work? Unison members who are on full-time contracts (which actually are few and far between because one of the ways to reduce staffing costs has been to employ support staff who are replacing staff who have left on term-time only contracts which means they are paid pro-rata for the number of weeks per year they work) work 52 weeks per year less an annual leave allownace of between 4-5 weeks.
In defence of the last teacher's strike, if schools can be closed for a day for the royal wedding (when incidentally all staff were paid) I do not feel a one day strike (and consider the savings made in salary payments?) has any more impact than that. Our school was not totally closed, all the pupils who did not attend were set work to do, and those pupils who's parents could not make care arrangements were supervised in school for the day. When parents take pupils out of school for a 2 week holiday in term-time, they do not seem to feel this affects their child's education?
You also need to check what you are stating about the changes to the pension scheme. It is not simply a rise in contributions.

I'm sure I will be forgotten after I've left, but for now, every day I work I am shown appreciation for what I do and told how valuable I am. That's the memory which I will hold.

Koicarp

Thanks Melancholy I found this bit interesting too:
"In 2010, some 38% of workers had a degree or equivalent qualification in the public sector, compared with 23% in the private sector.
Comparing the pay of these graduates flips the pay gap around, with public sector workers earning 5.7% less than those in the private sector".

2sides2everystory

...tzch tzch ... statistics statistics lies damned lies and statistics. Where are the BBC in this argument anyway vis-a-vis their pensions provider?