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3 mobile sent back, still getting bills
Comments
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If OP cannot find the tracking reference, his best port of call is the courier - to see if they can help with tracking it down. Just like happens when you lose something in the royal mail, you pop to your post office to enquire and they will say phone this number etc etc.Oneaday - you are 100% correct in stating 3's t&c. No dispute.
However, the rest of as saying that these t&c are probably not lawful under DSR and SOGA or any other law you care to name.
Excuse me but I think the lawyers for 3 (and other networks) know a bit about DSR and SOGA to know if their T&C are lawful or not.
OP can show that they never used the phone with the sim, they can show that they made the request to cancel the contract within the timeframe and that 3 sent them out a returns bag with an authorisation number.
How? - Where is the phone? Its not about whether phone was used or not - its whether the phone was returned and received by 3.
OP has reasonably offered to cover the cost of the handsetas they have lost the tracking cert, even although it was not their fault that it went missing.
It is not reasonable - as they did not order a phone, they placed an order for a mobile service. You are allowed to examine an item and return it within the trial period. If you change your mind, you return it with original packaging and cancel the contract.
Given all that, then OP has behaved reasonably and, if 3 are not prepared to accept their offer, then OP should pursue them through Trading Standards or whoever monitors DSR.
Yeah and little piggys will fly around...and 3 are perfectly right not accept any such offer. They provided a service and OP accepted their T&C.
Following your interpretation of 3's t&c, if OP had kept a copy of the tracking note and it was shown that the carrier had lost it in transit, then 3's t&c would not have been met so, presumably, they would still impose rental for the length of the contract and either OP or the carrier would have to carry the 24 month rental cost???
If the phone was returned and a tracking reference availble, what that would prove (through the courier's systems) is that the item was sent back and lost in transit. If that happens, the fault lies with the courier and OP has nothing to worry about.
I would be interested in your reply to that point. :beer:0 -
What they think may be lawful and what would be deemed unfair are two different thingsExcuse me but I think the lawyers for 3 (and other networks) know a bit about DSR and SOGA to know if their T&C are lawful or not.
Depends how you look at it ...untill the phone turns up who's to know ...at the moment it's the OP's word against 3's but untill the OP can prove despatch he is liable for it but no one is diputing it's missingHow? - Where is the phone? Its not about whether phone was used or not - its whether the phone was returned and received by 3.
Exactly he didn't order a phone only a service contract which was cancelled ...The OP does not have the service available to him because when it was cancelled they instructed him to destroy an integral part of that serviceIt is not reasonable - as they did not order a phone, they placed an order for a mobile service. You are allowed to examine an item and return it within the trial period. If you change your mind, you return it with original packaging and cancel the contract.
3 can refuse the offer but that does not mean it's the right thing for them to do ...However the OP is legaly entitled to refuse to pay for a service which was cancelled and not available to him.Yeah and little piggys will fly around...and 3 are perfectly right not accept any such offer. They provided a service and OP accepted their T&C.
So do you think the courier will pay for the full contract or do you think they will pay for the phone ???If the phone was returned and a tracking reference availble, what that would prove (through the courier's systems) is that the item was sent back and lost in transit. If that happens, the fault lies with the courier and OP has nothing to worry aboutIt's not just about the money0 -
What they think may be lawful and what would be deemed unfair are two different things
Depends how you look at it ...untill the phone turns up who's to know ...at the moment it's the OP's word against 3's but untill the OP can prove despatch he is liable for it but no one is diputing it's missing
Exactly he didn't order a phone only a service contract which was cancelled ...The OP does not have the service available to him because when it was cancelled they instructed him to destroy an integral part of that service
3 can refuse the offer but that does not mean it's the right thing for them to do ...However the OP is legaly entitled to refuse to pay for a service which was cancelled and not available to him.
So do you think the courier will pay for the full contract or do you think they will pay for the phone ???
Its got nothing to do with the courier paying for full contract or not - the courier will have their own CONTRACT and associated TERMS & CONDITIONS agreed with 3 to supply their service to 3. If they botch up, they will compensate in the appropriate manner as per their agreement.
The OP signed up to a contract, agreeing to the TERMS & CONDITIONS (which abide by the law). Break thos conditions, the OP is liable for the contract.
How many more simple ways do you need to understand this basic concept of business?0 -
I think on this one, Oneaday, you may have lost it.
In 3's t&c, there is nothing in there about the goods going lost in transit. You have quoted time and again in this thread that the contract is not cancelled until 3 have received the phone back. So if it has been lost in transit, it hasn't been returned, and therefore, you say, the contract hasn't been cancelled.
So it is, therefore, irrelevant (by strict interpretation of the t&c) whether the phone was lost in transit or not sent back at all. 3 haven't got it and there is no leeway in the t&c to cover that.
Moving on, the courier would only be responsible for the value of the goods in transit that went missing and you can't include £30 per month or whatever for airtime in that, so there is no way that they would underwrite the airtime contract.
Now if you choose to stick to your defence of unfair t&c, that's up to you, but when you write "If the phone was returned and a tracking reference availble, what that would prove (through the courier's systems) is that the item was sent back and lost in transit. If that happens, the fault lies with the courier and OP has nothing to worry about.", just point me to where in the 3 t&c there is a get out to cover substantiate your statement.0 -
The Law in this case relates to the DSR's which allows the customer to cancel the contract without any penalities.The OP signed up to a contract, agreeing to the TERMS & CONDITIONS (which abide by the law). Break thos conditions, the OP is liable for the contract.
In this case it is stalemate at the moment because the phone is missing but the contract has been cancelled. 3 have got two optons if the phone does not turn up or cannot be proven to be despatched.
They can either bill the OP for the full contract which is what is implied and no doubt will be disputed as happens when most contracts are terminated if they feel they are entitled to the full amount.
Or they can bill the OP for the cost of the phone ...what they can't do is carry on billing the OP each month as if nothings happened.It's not just about the money0 -
I think on this one, Oneaday, you may have lost it.
In 3's t&c, there is nothing in there about the goods going lost in transit. You have quoted time and again in this thread that the contract is not cancelled until 3 have received the phone back. So if it has been lost in transit, it hasn't been returned, and therefore, you say, the contract hasn't been cancelled.
So it is, therefore, irrelevant (by strict interpretation of the t&c) whether the phone was lost in transit or not sent back at all. 3 haven't got it and there is no leeway in the t&c to cover that.
Moving on, the courier would only be responsible for the value of the goods in transit that went missing and you can't include £30 per month or whatever for airtime in that, so there is no way that they would underwrite the airtime contract.
Now if you choose to stick to your defence of unfair t&c, that's up to you, but when you write "If the phone was returned and a tracking reference availble, what that would prove (through the courier's systems) is that the item was sent back and lost in transit. If that happens, the fault lies with the courier and OP has nothing to worry about.", just point me to where in the 3 t&c there is a get out to cover substantiate your statement.
Look read the terms and conditions -and show me where it says you can pay off a contract by paying for a phone.
Also read their T&C and the bit relating to not receiving a returned item in the appropriate condition.
The tracking number is there for a purpose - to ensure that the customer upon return can prove they sent a phone back.
Lose the tracking number, you are reliant on either the network or courier being able to determine what that tracking number, checking their systems to work out if the cutomer did indeed send the phone back. The onus is on the customer to prove this.0 -
The Law in this case relates to the DSR's which allows the customer to cancel the contract without any penalities.
In this case it is stalemate at the moment because the phone is missing but the contract has been cancelled. 3 have got two optons if the phone does not turn up or cannot be proven to be despatched.
They can either bill the OP for the full contract which is what is implied and no doubt will be disputed as happens when most contracts are terminated if they feel they are entitled to the full amount.
Or they can bill the OP for the cost of the phone ...what they can't do is carry on billing the OP each month as if nothings happened.
Again read the Terms and Conditions, if the phone is not returned - the OP is liable to pay for the remaining term of the contract.
You are assuming it is lost. I am stating the obvious question, was it sent back? The OP states they have not got the tracking number - why not? Something cannot be lost till you prove you have sent it back. If every Tom, !!!!!! and Harry turned around and said "Oh I sent it back but can't track it" - we would all be ordering some shiny new iphones and canceling contracts within 7 days.
There is no provision in the T&C to pay off the contract through paying for the mobile - lost or not.0 -
Again read the Terms and Conditions, if the phone is not returned - the OP is liable to pay for the remaining term of the contract.
There is no provision in the T&C to pay off the contract through paying for the mobile - lost or not.
So by that token, if the courier lost the phone and the OP has the tracking slip to prove postage, it is still down to the OP to pay off the contract????
Mars, Pluto, Venus, Jupiter
choose what planet you come from!0 -
So by that token, if the courier lost the phone and the OP has the tracking slip to prove postage, it is still down to the OP to pay off the contract????
Mars, Pluto, Venus, Jupiter
choose what planet you come from!
I am on Earth, not sure about you.
If the tracking number is availble AND courier can verify they were in receipt of an item which was not delivered to 3, then the courier is liable. QED.
If however a tracking number is not available (and 3 have no record of receipt)
OR it is available and courier has no trace of receipt of an item to return, the customer is liable for contract.
Its pretty simple - if you think about these things. I think its called sending things in the post or something. Why there is something called Special Delivery.0 -
The phone has been returned so not a problem is it as far as T&C's goAgain read the Terms and Conditions, if the phone is not returned - the OP is liable to pay for the remaining term of the contract.
.You are assuming it is lost. I am stating the obvious question, was it sent back? The OP states they have not got the tracking number - why not? Something cannot be lost till you prove you have sent it back. If every Tom, !!!!!! and Harry turned around and said "Oh I sent it back but can't track it" - we would all be ordering some shiny new iphones and canceling contracts within 7 days
Are you accusing the OP of fiddling here :eek:
How do you know what phone it is not that it makes a difference whatever the phone it will still have an agreed market value be it £6 or £600 and the OP is not trying to get out of being liable for it
Well because theres no provision in the T&C's to pay for the phone does not mean it doesn't happen ....theres no Law against it surely :rotfl:There is no provision in the T&C to pay off the contract through paying for the mobile - lost or not.It's not just about the money0
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