3 mobile sent back, still getting bills

Silk

Guys_Dad wrote: »

I agree with you. Regrettably, though, we both know 3 will still trash the credit record and put debt collectors on the trail if it isn't cleared up with them.

Yep ...which is why at some point the OP will have to write/email to head office and make an offer of paying the market value of the phone if it does not turn up. Or provide a tracking number and deny liability.

OneADay

Silk wrote: »

The contract has already been cancelled, it no longer exists.

If the OP was to prove it was sent back by managing to find his tracking number then 3 will have to try and put a claim in for the cost of the phone. They will not be able to claim for the cost of the contract, as it's only the cost of the phone that is outstanding.

Whilst 3 may wish to reinstate the contract it would not stand up in court. If they try to charge the full contract price for an airtime contract the OP would be able to counter this by issuing a demand for the difference between the market value of the phone and the cost of the contract.

When a contract is cancelled both parties have to be put back to the position they were before the contract was taken out ...in this case the outstanding issue is the missing phone.

Read the T&C on returns policy - the phone contract is cancelled when the phone has been recieved back. I just do not get what you are on about with reinstating contract.

Read the T&C.

To quote a bit of 3's t&c

"if you fail to return your Device in
accordance with the requirements
set out in this section 6, you will
not be eligible to return your Device
under this Returns/Exchanges policy,
but if you do still wish to end your
agreement for the supply of Three
Services during the Minimum Term
of your agreement, you must pay us
all the Charges you owe, plus any
Cancellation Fee for your Package
(as set out in the Price Guides)"

grumbler

The T&C cannot override the DSR.

OneADay

grumbler wrote: »

The T&C cannot override the DSR.

Don't know why I am bothing but explain that.

The DSR is to protect your consumer rights, the T&C apply to the contract service you sign up to when you get the shiny new mobile phone.

gjchester

grumbler wrote: »

The T&C cannot override the DSR.

Correct, but the DSR has a provision that using any software or if the item is personalised then that voids the DSR return rights.

Three take the (IMHO) very narrow view that turning on and using the phone uses the software and personalises it so it voids the ability to return the phone.

In a sense thats right, the DSR is so you can see the device in the flesh rather than on a screen, it's not a trial period.

The OP returned it unused so it should not be an issue but Three are know to be swines to not accept any phone back once used.

grumbler

gjchester wrote: »

Correct, but the DSR has a provision that using any software or if the item is personalised then that voids the DSR return rights.

Three take the (IMHO) very narrow view that turning on and using the phone uses the software and personalises it so it voids the ability to return the phone.

In a sense thats right, the DSR is so you can see the device in the flesh rather than on a screen, it's not a trial period.

The OP returned it unused so it should not be an issue but Three are know to be swines to not accept any phone back once used.

Nobody argues about the phone. It was used or lost and the OP has to pay for it. The only question can be how much, but this definitely cannot be more than a price of a sim-free phone.
The contract can be cancelled regardless of the phone. Used or missing phone cannot be an excuse for not cancelling the contract.

Silk

OneADay wrote: »

Read the T&C on returns policy - the phone contract is cancelled when the phone has been recieved back. I just do not get what you are on about with reinstating contract.

Read the T&C.

To quote a bit of 3's t&c

"if you fail to return your Device in
accordance with the requirements
set out in this section 6, you will
not be eligible to return your Device
under this Returns/Exchanges policy,
but if you do still wish to end your
agreement for the supply of Three
Services during the Minimum Term
of your agreement, you must pay us
all the Charges you owe, plus any
Cancellation Fee for your Package
(as set out in the Price Guides)"

The contract was cancelled under DSR's and no cancellation fees can be imposed

The OP claims the device was returned in accordance with their requrements ...however the tracking number has yet to be provided.

The outstanding charges they can impose are the costs of the phone.

3 will have to issue a demand on the OP for either the full cost of the contract which the OP will dispute or they will have to demand the cost of the phone which unless the OP can prove it was returned he will and has offered to pay

OneADay

Silk wrote: »

The contract was cancelled under DSR's and no cancellation fees can be imposed

The OP claims the device was returned in accordance with their requrements ...however the tracking number has yet to be provided.

The outstanding charges they can impose are the costs of the phone.

3 will have to issue a demand on the OP for either the full cost of the contract which the OP will dispute or they will have to demand the cost of the phone which unless the OP can prove it was returned he will and has offered to pay

And what have I been saying so far?

No proof of return and they will not accept a cancellation. Pay the contract off and they will accept it.

They do not ask for cost of phone to be paid off - it don't work like that unless they feel really generious to start selling, ooo I don't know iphones for £200 a go.

Silk

OneADay wrote: »

And what have I been saying so far?.

You said so far ....

If the phone was not received back by them - then the contract cannot be cancelled.

Well it was and is as per DSR's
You also said ...

You sign up to a contract online. You see there is a bit in there stating if you want to cancel, return the phone within 7 (or 14 days dependent upon the conditions of the network).

Again not true under DSR's the 7 days is the time limit to cancel not the time limit to return it although this is the minimum and can be extended should the supplier wish to offer it
You then go on to say...

You are still not getting it.

You sign up to a contract online. You see there is a bit in there stating if you want to cancel, return the phone within 7 (or 14 days dependent upon the conditions of the network).

Its you that does not seem to get it .....The DSR's state quite clearly that you have 7 working days to cancel the contract which starts the day following receipt of the phone ...it makes no difference what it states on other T&C's because the DSR's cannot be overidden.

You also say...

The contract is binding upon the return of the phone.

DSR is 7 days - not 30 days.

The contract is not binding it is outstanding and as explained to you the 7 days is the time limit for cancellation and the 30 days is the limit which a supplier has to refund any monies paid regardless of if the item has been received back or not.

OneADay wrote: »

No proof of return and they will not accept a cancellation. Pay the contract off and they will accept it.

They do not ask for cost of phone to be paid off - it don't work like that unless they feel really generious to start selling, ooo I don't know iphones for £200 a go.

You don't seem to be following this ....the contract was cancelled under DSR's which means it's a dead contract like a dead parrot

They already accepted the contract was cancelled which was why the sim was cut up and a returns number was issued and a returns bag sent out

The outstanding costs are the cost of the phone which 3 will have to make a demand on the OP for either by trying for the full cost of the contract, which the OP is entitled to dispute or by making a demand for market value.

Guys_Dad

Oneaday - you are 100% correct in stating 3's t&c. No dispute.

However, the rest of as saying that these t&c are probably not lawful under DSR and SOGA or any other law you care to name.

OP can show that they never used the phone with the sim, they can show that they made the request to cancel the contract within the timeframe and that 3 sent them out a returns bag with an authorisation number.

OP has reasonably offered to cover the cost of the handsetas they have lost the tracking cert, even although it was not their fault that it went missing.

Given all that, then OP has behaved reasonably and, if 3 are not prepared to accept their offer, then OP should pursue them through Trading Standards or whoever monitors DSR.

Following your interpretation of 3's t&c, if OP had kept a copy of the tracking note and it was shown that the carrier had lost it in transit, then 3's t&c would not have been met so, presumably, they would still impose rental for the length of the contract and either OP or the carrier would have to carry the 24 month rental cost???

I would be interested in your reply to that point. :beer: