Docs thru post - Don't have Orange Blackberry Torch, never taken out insurance cover!

sasparillo

Today I received through the post Orange "confirmation of insurance cover". It appears to be in an official envelope with the logo "we've taken care of it" and the orange logo and an address "If undelivered return to: Orange Insurance Department, Senhouse Road, Lingfield Way, Darlington DL1 4YQ. It claims a Blackberry Torch with a mobile number - definitely not mine - (also with another reference number) is now insured registered to me.

Needless to say, I am not and have never been on Orange and do not and have never owned a Blackberry Torch. The name and address is correct although the title attached to my name is wrong.

Can anyone shed light on this before I contact Orange Care (what a bother!)?

pimento

I would call and ask them to confirm the bank account number 'you' have used to set up the DD for the insurance. If it's yours, you'll know it's ID theft.

I suspect if you call and mention any sniff of ID theft before you ask the question, they'll clam up and quote the Data Protection Act at you.

sasparillo

Thanks for the response. I rang the main switchboard who told me they've been getting a lot of calls lately from people who have experienced the same thing. The switch board operator transferred me and told me to press 1 and five #'es in order to reach a customer services person. There are no bank details so presumably someone has purchased a pay as you go in my name (so much for checks!). He told me to reject the phone if it arrives.

Never mind data protection, Orange should be reporting this to the police and tracing the source of where their computer got my details from!

Curious situation in that he couldn't give me a case reference number but said I should just use the supposed account number. Also said he couldn't put anything in writing but I should be getting a verification telephone call from the Orange Fraud Department in 24 - 48 hours.

Jon_01

Unlikely the phone will ever arrive. The fraudsters will have had it redirected or have someone working for the delivery company.

You've very unlikely, also, to get a call from the Orange fraud dept. Its a none customer facing dept and has just been moved. I'd wait a a few days and call CS back, give them the account number you have and ask them to see what's been done on the account. . .

sasparillo

Thanks for your response Jon. Out of interest, since you know the Fraud Department has moved, where is it now based? Do you have an address?

I have done a google for Orange and fraud and have uncovered an appalling tale stretching over many years of people harassed through Orange by lawyers and debt collection agencies instructed by Orange (since I'm taking this on face value and am assuming Orange hasn't been taken over by lawyers and debt collection agencies, the major source of income of which is Orange fraud).

One other thing I find thoroughly reprehensible in the "confirmation of insurance cover" I received today through the post is that there is no indication where the supposed "account" was purchased.

I wasn't happy that "Sam" whom I spoke to said he wasn't permitted to put anything in writing.

I found an email address and snailmail address for the Orange Executive Office.

[EMAIL="executive.office@orange.co.uk"]executive.office@orange.co.uk[/EMAIL]
Orange Executive Office
50 George Street
LONDON
W1U 7DZ


I have sent them an email as follows:

I am confirming my telephone call today with "Sam" of your Customer Services Department.

Today I received "Orange Care confirmation of insurance cover" "Orange account number ..." "The following phones are now insured [mobile number] Blackberry Torch [another reference number]"

I have never been with the Orange network, have not bought an Orange Blackberry Torch phone, have never taken out Orange insurance cover and the mobile number is not my mobile telephone number.

Sam told me to reject any phone that was delivered to my address. He said he was passing the information on to the Fraud Department but was unable to give me a case number. He also said he was unable to confirm anything in writing but took my home phone number and said that the Fraud Department would give me a verification phone call in 24 - 48 hours.

I do need confirmation in writing that this matter is being dealt with by yourselves and I shall not be contacted further by Orange or anyone instructed by Orange over this except to confirm that the matter has been dealt with and I shall not receive further correspondance from Orange or anyone instructed by Orange regarding this account.

Yours faithfully,

Jon_01

First, I'd take the acc number off you last post. Just to be safe...

While I'm not excusing the actions you list above, some of it is down the people getting mail like yours and simply ignoring it (yes, it happens, I used to talk to them daily) and then wondering why they're being chased for the acc!

The guys in CS have to walk a fine line. They're bound by the data protection act and if the breach it they're in very hot water. So most of them will error on the side of saying nothing.

sasparillo

First, I'd take the acc number off you last post. Just to be safe...

Ooo, I thought I'd taken everything off ... well, it's off now ... Thanks!

While I'm not excusing the actions you list above, some of it is down the people getting mail like yours and simply ignoring it (yes, it happens, I used to talk to them daily) and then wondering why they're being chased for the acc!

Well, the complaints I've been reading are from people who have got in touch with Orange. I have to say, there is obviously something very wrong with the checking set up. If this had been checked with me before going through, they would have known it was fraudulent. Has a bank account been set up in my name - if so, how? And even now I'm not sure if it all has been properly recorded by Orange. The fact Customer Services or the Fraud Department is apparently not able to put anything in writing when a fraud is reported is not correct. It should be an automatic procedure - all they need do is confirm fraud has been reported to them. The fact they seemed to want to make no check about my call also seems to indicate another lack of care. And surely they have a hotline to the police about this? The burden should not be on the victim of a fraud and when it is reported, there should be automatic paperwork generated to show it has been reported and a copy sent to the person who says he or she is the victim. And it does seem to me, not having the address where the alleged purchase was made on the paperwork I received this morning again shows at best a lack of care.

By the way, who within Orange actually contacts outside firms of lawyers/debt collection agencies? Does Orange use one debt collection agency/set of lawyers or does it use a number and how does it keep control of all this and do quality assurance before it sets these firms on to people - if one can take at face value what is said on the internet?

The guys in CS have to walk a fine line. They're bound by the data protection act and if the breach it they're in very hot water. So most of them will error on the side of saying nothing.

They don't have to say anything. In fact there's a darn sight too much talking and not enough putting down of facts on paper. It's not about individuals. It's about Orange which should make sure there is paperwork generated to ensure the alleged fraud is reported and action is taken and that the alleged innocent party has a copy of the paper sent to him or her immediately. Orange customer services was not even able to give me a case reference number. And surely it is also reported to the police? Also it has not escaped my notice that not only does the "confirmation of insurance cover" not show where this cover was taken out, but it is undated. It only has the date of the supposed start of the supposed cover. And there is no postmark on the envelope. I appreciate you are trying to help Jon, but this is all work for people who have other things to do and there does seem, at first blush, to be a lack of care on the side of Orange and/or its sub contractors and/or retailers (and even then for the individual targetted by the fraudsters, it's just Orange they're dealing with and they can't get involved in the internal set up). I also had to look up the number of the Orange Head Office switchboard because I was blowed if I was going to use an expensive 0870 number or even use up my own mobile phone minutes on getting in touch with Orange. With the numbers on the internet complaining about all this, I would have thought Orange would have a free number on anything it sends out for people to ring in the event of fraud.

Thanks for your answers in any case and alerting me about the account number which I didn't mean to include! Where is the Fraud Department now based BTW? You said it had moved?

Orange_Company_Representative

Hi sasparillo,

Sorry to hear of the problems you have encountered recently, hopefully this will answer a few questions for you.

In regards to where the account was taken out, in order for Orange to provide Insurance for a handset it has to be Orange Branded. This means the account was probably either taken out via the website or telesales. To take an agreement out via these channels the fraudster needs customer details e.g. name, address, DOB.....

This means that someone has somehow obtained your personal details and used them to open an account, more often than not we find these fraudsters take out accounts on other networks at the same time not just ours so may be worth keeping an eye out on your post.

Unfortunately, some of these fraud accounts are not picked up on and letters etc sent to the addresses on them are discarded by the recipient as Junk. As a result the accounts remain active and we from our side of things can only assume the account is legitimate which is when the Collections process is started. Once these accounts are brought to our attention they are investigated and closed by the Fraud Team.

The address for the Fraud Team is currently:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Orange Fraud Department
Senhouse Road
Lingfield Way
Darlington
DL1 4YB

Fax: 0870 374 3311
[/SIZE][/FONT]
If you have any further questions please contact my colleagues on the pages listed in our profile on here.

Hope this helps,

^Steve_OrangeHelpers

Guys_Dad

Orange_Company_Representative wrote: »

Hi sasparillo,

Sorry to hear of the problems you have encountered recently, hopefully this will answer a few questions for you............................To take an agreement out via these channels the fraudster needs customer details e.g. name, address, DOB.....

This means that someone has somehow obtained your personal details and used them to open an account

^Steve_OrangeHelpers

I am always amazed that companies - and I am not pointing the finger at Steve - tend to take the approach that "if a fraudster has such personal information as above, then the real person must have failed to be security conscious" or has, in some way, been complicit or negligent.

I have lost track of the number of companies from utilities, banks, networks, insurances, on-line traders etc that have access to certain of my personal details in order for me to do business with them. It is inevitable that there must be dishonest employees as well as on-line hackers that have access to my details and, therefore, are able to apply for contracts in my name, landing me with potential situations such as OP's.

With that in mind, Networks should not be so quick to call in debt collectors, trash people's credit records and make it so hard for honest people who have been used by fraudsters to clear their names.

Jon_01

Guys_Dad wrote: »

I am always amazed that companies - and I am not pointing the finger at Steve - tend to take the approach that "if a fraudster has such personal information as above, then the real person must have failed to be security conscious" or has, in some way, been complicit or negligent.

I have lost track of the number of companies from utilities, banks, networks, insurances, on-line traders etc that have access to certain of my personal details in order for me to do business with them. It is inevitable that there must be dishonest employees as well as on-line hackers that have access to my details and, therefore, are able to apply for contracts in my name, landing me with potential situations such as OP's.

With that in mind, Networks should not be so quick to call in debt collectors, trash people's credit records and make it so hard for honest people who have been used by fraudsters to clear their names.

I'm not disagreeing, but if if you'd spoken to the number of people that I have who openly admit to just discarding things like bank statements, CC bills and the like into the bin and then can't see how they've suddenly got phone contracts they haven't opened dropping through the letter box, you'd be amazed!
Where people haven't just dumped paperwork, a surprising number find (either on their own or by the networks investigation) that the person taking up the contract is someone they know (or knew).

Networks aren't that quick to pass the debt off to a collection agent. It's usually 3 month minimum before it's passed on. And by then at least 3 bills will have gone out and 2 letters saying that the account is in arrears.

Guys_Dad

Jon_01 wrote: »

Networks aren't that quick to pass the debt off to a collection agent. It's usually 3 month minimum before it's passed on. And by then at least 3 bills will have gone out and 2 letters saying that the account is in arrears.

I take your word for the timescales, but may I refer you to this thread
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3287752

Networks seem to have no "on hold" mechanism whilst fraud claims are being investigated and you will see from the quoted thread that the steam-roller is grinding unstoppably forward to trash the thread starter's partner's credit record.

Even Credit Card companies have a "stop under dispute process" which networks seem not to have.