Orange mobile contract fraudently taken out

liffey

Hello,

My partner and I are having currently having a nightmare with Orange.

He arrived home around six weeks ago to find an iPhone 4 at his house which he had not ordered (he is still in contract with O2). He phoned Orange straightaway to explain this and they said no problem, we can see you are a victim of identity fraud, we will cancel the contract and arrange for the phone to be collected, which was fine, although worringly they said that two had been sent out :eek:

Fast forward to two weeks later and he starts getting letters asking for money. He phones again, and again Orange say they will handle it. During this time, they still haven't sent the courier to pick up the phone, so he sends it back via Royal Mail. Also, the contract is now showing up on his credit file.

A couple of weeks later, another demand letter arrives. This time he sets everything out in writing and phones back again. Now Orange start to say their fraud department has gotten involved, as they can see that the phone has been used. Conveniently however, nobody from the fraud team is available for him to speak to. He asks them to call back and, surprise surprise, they don't bother.

Today, he checks his credit file again and now the account is showing a late payment - except it's not his account! :mad:

Can anybody suggest what we should do from here???

Jon_01

First and foremost, did you send the iphone back via some tracked service?

The fraudsters will, as a rule, intercept the phones on the way to you. The first you'll know is when the first bill drops on the mat.

I'm afriad you'll never speak to anyone from Orange Fraud. Even frontline CSR's don't have a line to them any more. They can only pass email along.

I'd suggest calling CS, quoting the account number you have and seeing if the acc has been fraud flagged and what action is being taken. If its not, then it needs to be.
Then ask then to send a request to credit referrals to get any info on your credit file removed.

liffey

Thanks Jon 01, I'll tell him to try that. Fingers crossed!

chuckley

so y would they send the phone to u if it was ID theft?! surely the person wanted the fone?! *im lost*

Guys_Dad

Let's suppose they were dishonest and worked for Orange, Post Office, Courier, a neighbour in a block where mail was put in pigeon holes......................................

chuckley

yea but WHY get it delivered to the person's addy... we all know phones have to be signed for...

Wintermute

chuckley wrote: »

yea but WHY get it delivered to the person's addy... we all know phones have to be signed for...

Sometimes in these cases the phone gets delivered then the person the phone gets delivered to will get a knock on the door from somebody claiming to be a courier and that the phone's been delivered in error (the victim wont be expecting a phone so are often happy to go along with this) and will hand the phone over the the fake courier.

In other cases the phone gets intercepted before delivery.

The most puzzling one I've come across is people taking out SIM only contracts in somebody else's name with one network after calling them claiming to be with a completely different network. The only reason reason I can think for that would be fraud via cashback sites like quidco or somebody waiting to take over the account to run up massive phone bills.,

Jon_01

chuckley wrote: »

yea but WHY get it delivered to the person's addy... we all know phones have to be signed for...

Because they missed it. As a rule they find a way to intercept the phone(s) before they get the to real acc holder.

sasparillo

Jon 01 - can you tell us where the Fraud Department of Orange has moved to, as you mentioned in the thread?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3287204

Liffey - Not quite the same but I've also had a fraudulent Orange Care insurance taken out in my name - see again the thread

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3287204

It may be that Ofcom is the best office to contact

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/

Guardian newspaper "consumer champions" Mark King and Miles Brignall below, unlike other less reliable sources I've found on the internet, don't make the link Orange and the set up named Northern Debt Recovery are one and the same company . Their article also mentions Moorcroft Debt Recovery (none of these seem to be limited companies? Are NDR and Moorcroft registered anywhere? What is their registered address).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/jan/29/orange-debt-collection-agencies

The more I look into this, the stranger it becomes

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/03/orange_strong_arm_tatics/

I have also found this ongoing recruitment advert on the Orange website:

http://gs10.globalsuccessor.com/fe/tpl_everythingeverywhere01.asp?KEY=44922857&C=826134549859&PAGESTAMP=dbwxkuhvloivegbzlt&nexts=INIT_JOBLISTSTART&nextss=&mode=1&newQuery=yes&searchrefno=&searchlocation=0&searchdivision=0&searchtext=collections&formsubmit4=Search+and+Apply

In other words, there are individual employees in call centres centred on "debt recovery alongside ... debt collection agencies or .... [in a] team that keeps the collection system running ..."

Sufficiently vague, and alongside the numerous complaints about fraud escalating to debt collection demands seemingly coming from set ups called "Northern Debt Recovery" and "Moorcroft Debt Recovery", seems to beg many questions.

Maybe Martin Lewis would like to look into all this? At least to get an explanation from Orange.

I would be cautious about other postings on the internet.

http://www.orangeproblems.co.uk/northerndebtrecovery/

http://www.debtquestions.co.uk/debt_forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29436

yet at the same time I've found the name come up in connection with something else ...

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2587715

http://badbiz.co.uk/2011/01/northern-debt-recovery-aka-orange/

I think the posting may be wrong as it seems the same company is connected with others (see above).

http://badbiz.co.uk/2011/01/orange-northern-debt-recovery-act-inappropriately-on-alleged-debts/

I don't know whether the conclusion reached on this thread is correct either.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?192611-Northern-debt-recovery

It all appears very strange ...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?163956-Northern-Debt-Recovery-contact-tel-no

According to this a TV company is researching this. However the email address may be a bit suspect (it may be legit but if strikes me as a slightly odd posting from a TV company researcher as umpire.com just comes up as http://www.umpire.com/ and not the TV company )

http://www.the-scream.co.uk/forums/t29991.html

BTW about the job with Orange "Collections", I clicked on "apply" and then did a search amongst the jobs for "collections" and this came up:

http://gs10.globalsuccessor.com/fe/tpl_everythingeverywhere01.asp?s=EXgIfLQnAyPBgDdPyv&jobid=77039,8799729823&key=44922857&c=826134549859&pagestamp=secriqrlsqcfrznqno

I then clicked on "apply" and then under "more info" Senior Collections Scoring Analyst JD.doc for the job description


The job specification includes

§ [FONT=&quot]Work closely with the Collections Risk team to review & improve the Collection path segmentation - to maximise financial performance & value for money by assisting in the management, maintenance & improvement of the Collections strategies including support in design of new segments & preparing short term forecasts of segment / path performance.[/FONT]

§ [FONT=&quot]Reporting - specification, production & analyses of regular monthly collection risk reports & performance communication.[/FONT]

§ [FONT=&quot]Assist the Collections team in the forecasting & on-going improvement of the forced churn rate by generating specific initiatives aimed at improving churn performance.[/FONT]

§ [FONT=&quot]To establish credible relationships fast & to ensure that you are seen as a trusted advisor[/FONT]

§ [FONT=&quot]external suppliers/customers: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]External vendor base, external audit, outsourced partners – analyst level, of an operational nature & to ensure effective external working relationships[/FONT]

liffey wrote: »

Hello,

My partner and I are having currently having a nightmare with Orange.

He arrived home around six weeks ago to find an iPhone 4 at his house which he had not ordered (he is still in contract with O2). He phoned Orange straightaway to explain this and they said no problem, we can see you are a victim of identity fraud, we will cancel the contract and arrange for the phone to be collected, which was fine, although worringly they said that two had been sent out :eek:

Fast forward to two weeks later and he starts getting letters asking for money. He phones again, and again Orange say they will handle it. During this time, they still haven't sent the courier to pick up the phone, so he sends it back via Royal Mail. Also, the contract is now showing up on his credit file.

A couple of weeks later, another demand letter arrives. This time he sets everything out in writing and phones back again. Now Orange start to say their fraud department has gotten involved, as they can see that the phone has been used. Conveniently however, nobody from the fraud team is available for him to speak to. He asks them to call back and, surprise surprise, they don't bother.

Today, he checks his credit file again and now the account is showing a late payment - except it's not his account! :mad:

Can anybody suggest what we should do from here???

sasparillo

Today I receive a letter through the post with a computerized signature from a "Scott Anderson" "Orange Customer Support", this time putting in an initial for my middle name (some might say me phoning up Orange and speaking with a Sam and giving him my phone number so that the "Fraud Department" would get in touch may have something to do with this addition ...). This is from Bristol. The "Orange Care" is from Darlington. Frankly, anyone can generate these letters and have these envelopes whether in or outside Orange. It appears to be a complete vacuum with no checks or coordination. It claims I have taken out a £35 a month plan for 24 months.

Jon 01 in Bristol, would you tell me where the Fraud Department has moved to, as in the previous thread?

I have had an email back from the executive office saying that my email has been logged though. Peculiarly enough, it starts "Dear Madam" which to me doesn't seem to be the way one normally writes nowadays, is very old fashioned, as if someone has taken it from a teach-yourself manual for writing letters in the 1930s! It makes me wonder where exactly it comes from. Also the person who wrote this obviously standard letter doesn't seem to understand the use of apostraphes or commas (or full stops).

"We will endeavour to contact you within the next 48 hours excluding Saturday and Sunday’s, however please do not be alarmed if it takes a little longer as the time frame can be dependant upon the complexity of the investigation involved."

Also the ending "Our aim is provide you with an excellent standard of service at all times." seems to imply they are dealing with a customer rather than a victim of fraud who is not an orange customer.

Still I'll see what action is taken. I'm hoping the email address of [EMAIL="executive.office@orange.co.uk"]executive.office@orange.co.uk[/EMAIL] is a genuine one and isn't some sort of "Nigerian scam" spread around the internet.

Maybe Jon, you can help again? Is this actually the executive office email address?

grumbler

any active e-mail address @orange.co.uk is genuine and cannot be a 'sc[STRIKE]u[/STRIKE]am' unless Orange is part of it.