Buss Pass

birkee

jetta_wales wrote: »

NO

I have mobility issues but all my limbs work fine, can't see my hand in front of my face if the sun's out though! Even on the dullest of days I still can't see enough to be safe in a car park. I have HRM now the rules allow it but have always had an automatic entitlement to a BB because car parks are a very dangerous place for a blind person to be.

You could even argue (though it's ridiculous to have to) that some wheelchair users have less difficulty with mobility than a blind person because they can drive (not all of course hence I said 'some').

P.S.
With such vision defects, pray tell, how do you come to be on the internet, reading MSE pages, and following and contributing to this thread?
And you can't see a car in a car park?

p.p.s.
Some wheelchair users may move easier than some other people with disabilities, but if they can't get the chair out of the car because of narrow bays, and can't get between parked cars to reach where they're going? Naff argument.

GlasweJen

LOL Birkee, they have browsers for blind people, the one that I know my way around best is JAWS but there are others, give it a google.

jetta_wales

birkee wrote: »

P.S.
With such vision defects, pray tell, how do you come to be on the internet, reading MSE pages, and following and contributing to this thread?
And you can't see a car in a car park?

p.p.s.
Some wheelchair users may move easier than some other people with disabilities, but if they can't get the chair out of the car because of narrow bays, and can't get between parked cars to reach where they're going? Naff argument.

Oh jeez like I haven't heard that stupid line before only a few dozen times.

You can use a computer and many devices with no vision at all. At the moment I'm using an iPad at a ridiculous degree of zoom with all of the colours inverted and am holding it *uses fingers to get a rough measure of the gap between my nose and the screen and asking OH to judge how far apart my fingertips are* about 1 1/2 inches from my nose. It has a full screen reader too and other lesser speech features too. If I can look at a car that close I'll have no problem telling when it starts moving lol, in my experience though you're usually hunched over the cars bonnet, heart pounding, getting shoutted at by the driver for not looking where you're going before your eyes are ever that close to a car.

Anyway! As for being guided yes if possible I am but with kids who's hands need holding too and maybe even some shopping in our hands it is not always possible yet alone practical to hold my cane and my partners arm which would leave us with only one hand spare between us. Without the cane we've got two but also my OH needs to use his keys too and needless to say it feels just a little bit anxious standing on the spot somewhere you know isn't very safe and knowing you can't move a step without sombody's say so. I can be much much more independent if the car is parked somewhere safe. The moments when you are completely vulnerable and fully dependant on another person to take even one step safely are not pleasant at all!

Then there's also the issue of other people really not being fond of my cane repeatedly knocking against their car to judge the gap between them or my bags etc scratching them because I haven't judged the gap perfectly.

Savvy_Sue

birkee wrote: »

And how does getting a free bus pass help her? Does it stop her passing out? Is she unable to work without a bus pass?
I could go on, but I see it as just another way of getting something for nothing from the taxpayers.

I've got dyslexia, and can't read signs like "disabled parking only" and I need a carer to read my mail to me, so give me DLA and a free bus pass.
I'm colour blind, and can't drive because I can't see the colour of traffic lights, give me a bus pass.
And on and on and on and .....

I still don't quite get what your problem is.

You've got a bus pass, so is that something for nothing from the taxpayers for you? Or only for my friend and anyone else you don't feel 'deserves' one? My friend is, btw, still working and paying tax and IS financially disadvantaged by their deafness because they can no longer take the out of hours calls which were part of their job, so they've had to take a demotion (and yes, we know there are ways round this but in their profession those ways might not be appropriate / acceptable).

Is getting a Blue Badge / DLA / other concessions not already sufficiently complicated that we must now ALSO assess whether someone 'deserves' a bus pass, or would really benefit from one, or would use it for getting to work, or some other random criteria? And who, pray, is going to pay for these disabled bus pass assessments? Oh gosh, yes, it's local taxpayers, isn't it? As we already do for whatever screening goes on atm. And yes, I know we are also paying for the journeys made on these bus passes, but you know what? I STILL think it's better to give them out according to the current criteria rather than according to yours.

Because actually, I think that far fewer people get them than you assume, and that the reasons they get them for are not as spurious as you seem to think.

And I'll give a personal example. ATM I'm having some hydrotherapy (oh no, at the taxpayer's expense!) and my therapist suggested that I should try to get to a swimming pool. Now, it costs £3.70 to swim in my local and not particularly pleasant council run swimming pool, so I have no particular enthusiasm about going. However, someone mentioned the Schwim Free promotion to me, and I discovered that there are two very nice local Health Clubs participating where I can swim for the price of a bottle of water, up to 5 times. This encourages me to go.

So, the person with agoraphobia - who presumably isn't working and is therefore not particularly flush - is, like me, encouraged to do something they don't particularly want to do. Let's suppose that was me: a single bus journey in my city is £2 or more, but I'm going to need a return, so it's going to cost me £4 I don't have, plus I can't do it on my own and it's not fair to expect a carer to pay to come with me, so that's £8 I don't have.

At this stage, I'd say the cost of a bus pass to the taxpayer, was marginal. If I can now afford to get out and on that bus, one day soon I'm going to try it. And one day soon after that, I might manage to get a bus on my own. And one day soon after that, I might even be well enough to look for work and start paying taxes again myself ...

Humphrey10

I'm entitled to a buss pass and disabled person's rail card (though I have no idea how I would go about getting either, I surrendered my licence so have no letter from the DVLA saying why I can't drive, only one saying I've surrendered it), I don't think I should be entitled to either.

I don't see how my situation is different to someone who has not yet passed their driving test. You might say well someone else could just learn to drive, well it's not that easy for everyone. It took me months and months and cost £lots to learn to drive, and then there is the cost of a car on top. I might be able to drive again in a years time, and can afford another car, so it is possible I could drive again quicker than someone who needs lessons or has problems affording a car.

I work, I can afford bus and train fares, someone who is able to drive but is unemployed or on a low wage has far more need of a buss pass and railcard than me, imo.

Note: this is just in my personal case, as I have no mobility/sight/hearing/balance etc problems, so have no problems walking, do not need a carer with me, and am not on DLA etc, I just am not allowed to drive. I believe things like buss passes and railcard should be reserved for people who actually need them, not for me.

Saying that, if I can ever be bothered to work out how to apply, I may get both, just because I can, hope that doesn't make me a bad person.

Richie-from-the-Boro

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

I still don't quite get what your problem is.

You've got a bus pass, so is that something for nothing from the taxpayers for you? Or only for my friend and anyone else you don't feel 'deserves' one? My friend is, btw, still working and paying tax and IS financially disadvantaged by their deafness because they can no longer take the out of hours calls which were part of their job, so they've had to take a demotion (and yes, we know there are ways round this but in their profession those ways might not be appropriate / acceptable).

Is getting a Blue Badge / DLA / other concessions not already sufficiently complicated that we must now ALSO assess whether someone 'deserves' a bus pass, or would really benefit from one, or would use it for getting to work, or some other random criteria? And who, pray, is going to pay for these disabled bus pass assessments? Oh gosh, yes, it's local taxpayers, isn't it? As we already do for whatever screening goes on atm. And yes, I know we are also paying for the journeys made on these bus passes, but you know what? I STILL think it's better to give them out according to the current criteria rather than according to yours.

Because actually, I think that far fewer people get them than you assume, and that the reasons they get them for are not as spurious as you seem to think.

And I'll give a personal example. ATM I'm having some hydrotherapy (oh no, at the taxpayer's expense!) and my therapist suggested that I should try to get to a swimming pool. Now, it costs £3.70 to swim in my local and not particularly pleasant council run swimming pool, so I have no particular enthusiasm about going. However, someone mentioned the Schwim Free promotion to me, and I discovered that there are two very nice local Health Clubs participating where I can swim for the price of a bottle of water, up to 5 times. This encourages me to go.

So, the person with agoraphobia - who presumably isn't working and is therefore not particularly flush - is, like me, encouraged to do something they don't particularly want to do. Let's suppose that was me: a single bus journey in my city is £2 or more, but I'm going to need a return, so it's going to cost me £4 I don't have, plus I can't do it on my own and it's not fair to expect a carer to pay to come with me, so that's £8 I don't have.

At this stage, I'd say the cost of a bus pass to the taxpayer, was marginal. If I can now afford to get out and on that bus, one day soon I'm going to try it. And one day soon after that, I might manage to get a bus on my own. And one day soon after that, I might even be well enough to look for work and start paying taxes again myself ...

HiYa Sue, Bus Pass Costs are not marginal at a bi££ion per annum

The last I read on the subject was .. .. cost to the taxpayer for bus passes .. .. £1billion a year, hence the reason the ' nasty party ' changed entitlement age from 60 to 65 meaning, that takes 3 million people out of the equation, people who's 60th would fall in 2015 now need to wait till April 2020.

jetta_wales

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

HiYa Sue, Bus Pass Costs are not marginal at a bi££ion per annum

The last I read on the subject was .. .. cost to the taxpayer for bus passes .. .. £1billion a year, hence the reason the ' nasty party ' changed entitlement age from 60 to 65 meaning, that takes 3 million people out of the equation, people who's 60th would fall in 2015 now need to wait till April 2020.

I think it was right that they brought it in-line with retirement age.

Savvy_Sue

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

HiYa Sue, Bus Pass Costs are not marginal at a bi££ion per annum

The last I read on the subject was .. .. cost to the taxpayer for bus passes .. .. £1billion a year, hence the reason the ' nasty party ' changed entitlement age from 60 to 65 meaning, that takes 3 million people out of the equation, people who's 60th would fall in 2015 now need to wait till April 2020.

I'm talking about Disabled bus passes rather than those you are automatically entitled to once you reach a great age. I agree that the cost of the latter is not marginal. And it's certainly something for nothing at the taxpayer's expense. And I'll probably never get one because they'll keep raising the age, or make them means tested, or something like that. But I don't rant against them or those who use them.

However, those you can get ONLY if you are disabled / medically barred from holding a driving licence are not such a great cost, because there are far fewer of them, and I believe it's a cost to LOCAL taxpayers. Do correct me if I'm wrong, of course.

There are criteria to meet, as there should be, but I'd hate to see a 'worthiness' test introduced ... and I can't see that means testing it would be cost effective.

Richie-from-the-Boro

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

I'm talking about Disabled bus passes rather than those you are automatically entitled to once you reach a great age. I agree that the cost of the latter is not marginal. And it's certainly something for nothing at the taxpayer's expense. And I'll probably never get one because they'll keep raising the age, or make them means tested, or something like that. But I don't rant against them or those who use them.

However, those you can get ONLY if you are disabled / medically barred from holding a driving licence are not such a great cost, because there are far fewer of them, and I believe it's a cost to LOCAL taxpayers. Do correct me if I'm wrong, of course.

There are criteria to meet, as there should be, but I'd hate to see a 'worthiness' test introduced ... and I can't see that means testing it would be cost effective.

- fairy-nuff, yes on re-reading the thread, you were making ref to ' disabled bus passes ' so my bad, and my apologies Sue

Savvy_Sue

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

- fairy-nuff, yes on re-reading the thread, you were making ref to ' disabled bus passes ' so my bad, and my apologies Sue

easy enough mistake to make, under the circumstances, especially as the OP started by talking about the ages at which you can get the - what do you call it without causing offence? - bus pass you get just for surviving long enough.

Who was asking about the Disabled Persons Railcard? That is NOT a freebie, but if you are eligible for both that and the Senior Railcard, the Disabled one is better IMO: slightly cheaper to buy initially, and any companion gets the same discount.

However, if you are confined to a wheelchair when travelling, or blind /visually impaired, you can get some discounts without any railcard at all. Take a look here.