Help me get this into perspective..

Cezzabelle

From a professional point of view, if she hasn’t definitely got pupillage for next year (I think you said "hopefully") its so difficult to get one now, that this job will give her an advantage. (im assuming its law related) and if she has got one lined up, then working "in the biz" before it starts will give her a confidence boost when she starts pupillage, as she will have some experience of some sort under her belt which, in turn, will mean she will start to earn good money quicker once pupillage kicks in (there's the MSE element)

From a more personal point of view I am your daughter (metaphorically speaking) and your post could be from my mum. She's never said it to me but I know its how she feels and I feel guilty every day but thats another issue what I did want to say is that "eventually" London becomes a lifestyle choice especially in the profession she is going into. You know your daughter and I don’t obviously but if you think she's the kind of girl that wants to settle down eventually and have a family id be willing to bet she wont want to do that in London and will hanker for a home life for her own family that reflects the one she had growing up. I know I do. The other side to that is that as a "career woman" who suddenly finds herself 10 years on considering a "family life" its quite hard to do it (in that it makes you question if youve done the right thing) when you are still around your contemporaries who are moving on up the career ladder, another reason it seems preferable to move back "home"

I know that’s a long term "plan" but it might give you some hope for the future….and if she doesn’t come back you'll realise by then that despite your upset/fears you actually managed fine without her and that you see her more than you would if she was at home, and for better quality time -she'll visit for a whole weekend and you'll get her undivided attention, if she works as a barrister in NI she wont feel the "need" (wrong word) to spend so long with you as she'll see you for half an hour here and then whilst working crazy long hours

Big hugs, i know its hard

Diane1961_2

Dear Artytarty

I felt the same as you when two daughters moved out together, (and only round the corner). It was a real shock to realise that Me and Him didn't have a life outside of work and home. The family had taken all of our time and energy for so many years that we hadn't really looked up. We started to do more things together without them. Golf lessons, dance lessons, weekends away, dinners out just so that we weren't left looking at each other in a silent house once all the chicks had flown the nest.

We have had to rebuild our relationship and remember that that is the most important one. We still have one 20 yr old at home and a 27 yr old left and came back but we are now looking forward to having some space together very soon. None of them live more than 4 hours away, most a lot closer. Grandchildren have arrived and the house is often busy but we are also reclaiming it more and more. Take the chance for some wonderful years in your relationship with the children and future grandchildren weaving in and out regularly.

Be gentle with yourself, things are always changing and love just keeps growing - be love x x x

Emmzi

I am the daughter in this situation. I cannot begin to tell you how much I resent

"we so look forward to your visits, you're the only thing that makes your dad smile"
"the house is so empty with just us in it."
"some girls live at home until they are married."

Going home is a total chore that I do out of a sense of duty.

Don't be that mother.

Artytarty

Emmzi, that perspective from the daughter was good reading and made me sit up and take notice!
The job is in legal and whos who in law research for the leading company.The interviews for pupillage 2012 begin nest month and run into July. This job starts in August.She does say that in the long term she would like to raise a family here but I'll not be counting my chickens again.I reckon the London lifestyle and career must be hard to give up and to get her partner to settle here is asking a ot of him too.
My husband wont dance, golf etc. He is so wrapped up in his job which to be fair is quite full on and interesting (to him anyhow!)To me it just pays the bills.
I do my arty crafty stuff and garden /walk the dog.

Emmzi

Arty, my tops tips

- have things to talk about in your own life when you call - not just endless questions on what daughter is doing! what's hasppening in the town, her old school, the church, whatever communities you share
- have interesting things to do when she visits!
- don't spanish inquisition her - she is allowed space and privacy and to share what she wants to
- visit as often as you can afford and are welcome (I'd say max every 2 months for me!)
- don't let your husbands lack of interests stop you doing thins - volunteer, get involved in your local community
- make your world bigger than just your family
- try not to moan about the small stuff all the time
- let her be a grown up and only offer money/ advice if it is solicited
- if you have a car get her on the insurance so she can go visiting when she comes to visit
- don't keep her old room like a shrine

FWIW I visit home every 6 weeks or so, would probably be every month if it was a pleasant experience!

I do enjoy receiving snippets from the local paper in the post and postcards from my folks when they have been out for lunch in wee villages etc

bluenoseam

To be fair you also need to look at the fact Northern Ireland while vastly improved from what it used to be is still a very small pond (this coming from the person in the slightly bigger but still notoriously small pond of Scotland!) - however much i love Scotland i know that if i wanted to achieve the top positions in any given profession it's likely to have me moving South. I think you need less perspective on how your daughter's moving away will impact you and some more help on YOURSELF and your own position - i'm no psychiatrist (thankfully!) but you sound pretty lonely & bored in your life and could use a little attention, bearing in mind that yeah a big part of being a mother is being busy with your family, but it seems to me like now you're entering a stage where this is no longer needed you're struggling to find something else to replace that sense of "purpose".

Slap me if i'm way off the mark like, but that's how it looks from what i've read - you know in your head that what she's doing is best for her, but because you haven't found something to replace being "mum" you're struggling to accept it because you feel it might make you surplus to requirements, and hey, we all know that's never going to be true, doesn't matter the circumstance, when the brown stuff hits the fan who's the first person we're on the phone to? I know you probably think i'm a bit condescending here (pft, 26 year old thinking he's a wise head!) but if you can find something to keep you on an even keel then you're less inclined to feel so bad at DD flying the nest - arty/crafty stuff & walking the dog is a start, but i think you need to find something else to give you that "pep". Oh and for the record, i'm with you, i hate London with a passion - but ultimately it's not the other side of the world & is relatively cheap to visit these days (if you can avoid Ryanair's extra charges for everything!)

tara747

Blue_Monkey wrote: »

I know that my mum wept and wept and wept the whole way home from dropping me off at university when I was 18. 4 years later, after spending a year on exchange overseas and graduating at 22 I moved back in to my mum's and we squabbled for pretty much the 2.5 years before I then left to go travelling when I was 24. Moved back to mum's at 25 (squabbled some more) and then finally moved out for good at 26. I think we actually made each other's lives miserable when I moved back home in all honesty... She wanted her little girl and I wanted to be grown up - two headstrong women under the same roof was an interesting dynamic!

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that you never know when your daughter might next be home with you and regardless of when that is, it's likely that you both would've changed somewhat during that time, so having her "home" might not be the same as it was. Hard as it is, at least you're ending that part of family life on a high rather than her moving back in and you driving each other potty.

I don't think you're selfish at all, and I totally echo everyone else's comments on how you should be proud you raised such a sensible, confident, intelligent young lady.

At the ripe old age of 31 I'm slowly beginning to undestand a bit more about how much mums love their kids. I'm 11 weeks pregnant with my first and living in Australia, far far from my parents in the UK. Hopefully we'll be moving back before I have the baby and I will live walking distance from friends and family.

Reading this has got me in tears (must be the pregnancy hormones!)....I think what set me off was thinking of the brave face my mum put on every time she had to wave me off somewhere, and I how I can see her getting weepy even when we hang up from Skype. A best friend of mine who is very stoical and not sentimental at all was in floods of tears at my leaving do (when we left to come to Oz) saying to my mum "I can't bear to see you say goodbye to her" - she was a new mum herself to her own little 3 month daughter.

Anyway, I'm really waffling now. I guess perhaps I'm trying to say that I can see this from the point of view of the Travelling Daughter and am beginning to empathise with the way a mum feels and I guess there is nothing to do but go have a bath (as you say), perhaps a glass of vino and go with the flow.

Best of luck xx

Cezzabelle wrote: »

From a professional point of view, if she hasn’t definitely got pupillage for next year (I think you said "hopefully") its so difficult to get one now, that this job will give her an advantage. (im assuming its law related) and if she has got one lined up, then working "in the biz" before it starts will give her a confidence boost when she starts pupillage, as she will have some experience of some sort under her belt which, in turn, will mean she will start to earn good money quicker once pupillage kicks in (there's the MSE element)

From a more personal point of view I am your daughter (metaphorically speaking) and your post could be from my mum. She's never said it to me but I know its how she feels and I feel guilty every day but thats another issue what I did want to say is that "eventually" London becomes a lifestyle choice especially in the profession she is going into. You know your daughter and I don’t obviously but if you think she's the kind of girl that wants to settle down eventually and have a family id be willing to bet she wont want to do that in London and will hanker for a home life for her own family that reflects the one she had growing up. I know I do. The other side to that is that as a "career woman" who suddenly finds herself 10 years on considering a "family life" its quite hard to do it (in that it makes you question if youve done the right thing) when you are still around your contemporaries who are moving on up the career ladder, another reason it seems preferable to move back "home"

I know that’s a long term "plan" but it might give you some hope for the future….and if she doesn’t come back you'll realise by then that despite your upset/fears you actually managed fine without her and that you see her more than you would if she was at home, and for better quality time -she'll visit for a whole weekend and you'll get her undivided attention, if she works as a barrister in NI she wont feel the "need" (wrong word) to spend so long with you as she'll see you for half an hour here and then whilst working crazy long hours

Big hugs, i know its hard

I have tears in my eyes reading the two posts above. Artytarty - please remember that your daughter may be feeling exactly the same as you are. I too live away from home (but on the same island) and I miss my mum like mad. I go home to visit about one weekend a month or so, and regularly cry and feel miserable when I have to leave. We speak every single day on the phone and I love to hear her comforting voice... but it's not the same as being geographically close (for me anyway). I wish more than anything that I could move nearer to home. The problem is that it would be hard to find a job there (quite rural location). And that is the case for your daughter as well, I imagine. London is where it's at for most law jobs, once she's qualified she may be able to come back home.

When I have children, I will probably make the move regardless of jobs/money, not for the free babysitting, just because I want my kids to have her around and have her as part of the family! Your DD will likely feel the same - Irish people have the strongest roots in the world and always want to move back near mammy when they have their own children! make me wise's nanna was right - nothing in life is permanent.

I hope you can find some other things to fill your time, and get busy booking a trip to visit your DD soon!

Have a massive hug! :A



Emmzi - how sad that you only visit your parents out of duty.

Emmzi

tara747 wrote: »

Emmzi - how sad that you only visit your parents out of duty.

I agree. However I am their whole life now; brother has stopped visiting altogether. It is a lot of pressure to feel. (That plus questions on why I have not produced a grandchild/ got married etc like proper women did in their day).

I feel about 7 years old every time I visit because I am not doing things "properly" (like they were in the 60s..)

And oh my, the warnings about how awful London is and why I shouldn't work there...

tara747

Emmzi wrote: »

Arty, my tops tips

- have things to talk about in your own life when you call - not just endless questions on what daughter is doing! what's hasppening in the town, her old school, the church, whatever communities you share
- have interesting things to do when she visits!
- don't spanish inquisition her - she is allowed space and privacy and to share what she wants to
- visit as often as you can afford and are welcome (I'd say max every 2 months for me!)
- don't let your husbands lack of interests stop you doing thins - volunteer, get involved in your local community
- make your world bigger than just your family
- try not to moan about the small stuff all the time
- let her be a grown up and only offer money/ advice if it is solicited
- if you have a car get her on the insurance so she can go visiting when she comes to visit
- don't keep her old room like a shrine

FWIW I visit home every 6 weeks or so, would probably be every month if it was a pleasant experience!

I do enjoy receiving snippets from the local paper in the post and postcards from my folks when they have been out for lunch in wee villages etc

Very sound advice. I am glad that my mum has good friends and neighbours so she is not lonely. It does me good to hear her news, but I also want her to be able to tell me if she is feeling down or lonely. OTOH, my room is still as it was when I left it and we both like it that way! When I visit for a weekend, there is nothing we like more than just pottering ground the house and garden, or sharing the Sunday papers over endless cups of tea.

(((((((((((mum)))))))))))

tara747

Emmzi wrote: »

I agree. However I am their whole life now; brother has stopped visiting altogether. It is a lot of pressure to feel. (That plus questions on why I have not produced a grandchild/ got married etc like proper women did in their day).

I feel about 7 years old every time I visit because I am not doing things "properly" (like they were in the 60s..)

And oh my, the warnings about how awful London is and why I shouldn't work there...

Oh goodness, sounds quite bad. Sorry if my post came across the wrong way - I meant that it was sad for all of you that you had been put off visiting.

My mum sometimes wonders if I am ever going to get married or have kids too, thankfully not in a pressure-type way!

Have you spoken to your brother about his not visiting?