Scrap copper

Blacksheep1979

Don't namby pamby about with the small claims court, have a face to face and tell him what you want out of it and that if he doesn't sort out the situation you're going to the police. He's taken the goods with intent to permanently deprive, there's dishonesty and conversion - everything that you need for theft. If the guys not been on any other jobs at the moment and has taken a load of copper into a local scrappy he's going to find it rather awkward explaining that to the police.

keystone

Why has it not occured to anyone that the scrappy who "quoted" £700 was probably just saying that to ensure that he was the one that the stuff went to. Bet the price would have dropped like a stone once weighed in "well you got far less there mate than I thought you would - not more than a oner there frankly". All this carp about small claims and knocking it off the bill. There is no proof of anything and theres a lot of peeps on this thread speculating their backsides off. If the OP had given clear concise instructions (preferably in writing) that all such matrerials were not to be removed and the contractor could be shown to have clearly understood that and an original written quote could be provided for the scrap value then he might stand a chance.

Cheers

Steve_xx

keystone wrote: »

If the OP had given clear concise instructions (preferably in writing) that all such matrerials were not to be removed and the contractor could be shown to have clearly understood that and an original written quote could be provided for the scrap value then he might stand a chance.

Cheers

The OP did give clear instruction by verbally informing the contractor that the scrap was to remain at the property. Why should the OP have to write that down? The scrap does not form a part of the contract as such; it is incidental to the performance of the contract. One would not expect to have to write to a plumber to inform him not to remove the settee or any other item of furniture from a property and whilst it is normally acceptable for tradesmen to remove these items; in this case he was instructed not to. Therefore, it is theft.

challengedavid

well what happened then? or will it be one of these threads that never got resolved?

keystone

Steve_xx wrote: »

The OP did give clear instruction by verbally informing the contractor that the scrap was to remain at the property.

The OP may think he did but did the contractor understand it? Was it clear and concise. A mumbled "by the way I'd like to....." in passing when the guy may have had his mind on other things doesn't constitute clear and concise. You have no idea and neither do I so posturing about it calling it theft is nonsense.

The scrap does not form a part of the contract as such; it is incidental to the performance of the contract.

Not if the contractor normally carries out his business in the way that HE explains and that he had every expectation of doing so in this instance.

One would not expect to have to write to a plumber to inform him not to remove the settee or any other item of furniture from a property and whilst it is normally acceptable for tradesmen to remove these items;

One would expect to have written contract which clearly states all the work that will be done for the agreed consideration and which would include such things as disposal of arisings.

in this case he was instructed not to.

I challenge you to prove it that he understood that.

Therefore, it is theft.

Therefore, such a conclusion is a load of b o l l o c k s because you are guessing as you only have one side of the story pumped up by a stack of speculation. No offence meant to you - just taking a balanced view of it.

Whats got peeps going on this thread is the £700 bait apparently (no proof either) left by a scrappy. There wouldn't be half so much righteous indignation being plastered about if the scrappy had been quoted as saying between £50 and £100 mate. OP would heva been told to put it down to experience.

Anyway, since when did ANY scrappy (apart from a !!!!!) give a price without weighing it at his premises for any material he proposed to buy. He was spinning a line to make sure the stuff went to him - that stands out like the dogs proverbrials.

Cheers

Edit Oh - the nice forum censor doesn't like the commonly used parlance for a "traveller". I won't change it back - you prolly know what I mean. If you don't never mind!

Steve_xx

keystone wrote: »

The OP may think he did but did the contractor understand it? Was it clear and concise. A mumbled "by the way I'd like to....." in passing when the guy may have had his mind on other things doesn't constitute clear and concise. You have no idea and neither do I so posturing about it calling it theft is nonsense.

Not if the contractor normally carries out his business in the way that HE explains and that he had every expectation of doing so in this instance.

One would expect to have written contract which clearly states all the work that will be done for the agreed consideration and which would include such things as disposal of arisings.

I challenge you to prove it that he understood that.

Therefore, such a conclusion is a load of b o l l o c k s because you are guessing as you only have one side of the story pumped up by a stack of speculation. No offence meant to you - just taking a balanced view of it.

Whats got peeps going on this thread is the £700 bait apparently (no proof either) left by a scrappy. There wouldn't be half so much righteous indignation being plastered about if the scrappy had been quoted as saying between £50 and £100 mate. OP would heva been told to put it down to experience.

Anyway, since when did ANY scrappy (apart from a !!!!!) give a price without weighing it at his premises for any material he proposed to buy. He was spinning a line to make sure the stuff went to him - that stands out like the dogs proverbrials.

Cheers

Edit Oh - the nice forum censor doesn't like the commonly used parlance for a "traveller". I won't change it back - you prolly know what I mean. If you don't never mind!

The OP instructed the contractor not to remove the recovered metal from the premises. The contractor chose to ignore that instruction. Therefore, it is theft.

As you say, we are speculating due to the fact that we were not there. However, based on what the OP has stated, then it is theft.

The OP is entitled to have his goods returned.

keystone

Steve_xx wrote: »

The OP instructed the contractor not to remove the recovered metal from the premises. The contractor chose to ignore that instruction. Therefore, it is theft.

There is no proof.

As you say, we are speculating due to the fact that we were not there.

Indeed. Not only that but the contractor has not had the opportunity to put his side of the story either. This place should not be a star chamber.

However, based on what the OP has stated, then it is theft.

However, based on what the OP has stated it might be considered to be theft and worthy of further investigation. It would never get to court IMHO.

The OP is entitled to have his goods returned.

Perhaps but thats too definitive for me based on the information available.

Again I say would this thread have even arisen if it was not for the dubious and unproveable "Its worth £700" claimed to have been said by a scrappy who would prolly tear his right arm off before giving a brass farthing more than his scales say he needs to.

Cheers

Steve_xx

keystone wrote: »

There is no proof.

Indeed. Not only that but the contractor has not had the opportunity to put his side of the story either. This place should not be a star chamber.

However, based on what the OP has stated it might be considered to be theft and worthy of further investigation. It would never get to court IMHO.

Perhaps but thats too definitive for me based on the information available.

Again I say would this thread have even arisen if it was not for the dubious and unproveable "Its worth £700" claimed to have been said by a scrappy who would prolly tear his right arm off before giving a brass farthing more than his scales say he needs to.

Cheers

The possibility that the scrap may or may not be worth £700 is not relevant to the OP's claim.

A contractor was employed to do some work. The OP instructed that contractor not to remove the spoils, but he did. The contractor removed the spoils without permission and therefore it is theft. The contractor has effectively sought to permanently deprive the owner of the goods.

Neither you nor I know what was said between the two parties. We can only go on what the OP says. Incidentally the OP has not posted any further comment so we can assume that he has decided not to take this further or has settled the matter satisfactorily but not posted the result here.

It is not unknown for workmen, left to their own devices, to help themselves to that which is not theirs.

heating-eng

Steve_xx wrote: »

The possibility that the scrap may or may not be worth £700 is not relevant to the OP's claim.

A contractor was employed to do some work. The OP instructed that contractor not to remove the spoils, but he did. The contractor removed the spoils without permission and therefore it is theft. The contractor has effectively sought to permanently deprive the owner of the goods.

Neither you nor I know what was said between the two parties. We can only go on what the OP says. Incidentally the OP has not posted any further comment so we can assume that he has decided not to take this further or has settled the matter satisfactorily but not posted the result here.

It is not unknown for workmen, left to their own devices, to help themselves to that which is not theirs.

most if not all the customers i have worked expect me to get rid of the rubbish and scrap for them.
the cost of this is included when i quote. the price would be more if there was no scrap so on my jobs the scrap is mine.
i would guess that most engineers work in this way.
so in my mind it is not theft. seems like the customer has agreed a job to me and then when they have seen the srcap coming out they have then thought of how much it might be worth. £700 scrap from one job is very unlikey in my opinion, there fore i would not trust the rest of what has been said, sounds like a customer trying to get every last penny from the installer to me.

Steve_xx

heating-eng wrote: »

most if not all the customers i have worked expect me to get rid of the rubbish and scrap for them.
the cost of this is included when i quote. the price would be more if there was no scrap so on my jobs the scrap is mine.
i would guess that most engineers work in this way.
so in my mind it is not theft. seems like the customer has agreed a job to me and then when they have seen the srcap coming out they have then thought of how much it might be worth. £700 scrap from one job is very unlikey in my opinion, there fore i would not trust the rest of what has been said, sounds like a customer trying to get every last penny from the installer to me.

Yes I understand what you're saying and I am sure that most would expect the installer to remove the scrap. However, the OP has said that a discussion took place with the installer, requesting that the scrap be left. One would therefore assume that at that point that the installer would have the option to say that the job had been priced inclusive of the scrap value.

I also take your point in that you price the job up with the recovery of the scrap in mind and that's fair enough. You are a rare breed and in my view most tradesman would regard the scrap as an extra and it would not be priced into the job.