3 - charging for text delivery receipts

Snakeeyes21

Right it seems three have pulled their finger out, ive recieved a deadlock letter today,
well a letter outlining their final position, I assume this is the same thing.

Ive going to send an email to the ombudsman, a copy of this is below, maybe somebody could
cast their eye over it, im really not that good at writig these kind of letters..

Dear Sir / Madam

Thank you for replying to my initial complaint.

Ive followed the steps outlined in your attached files and have had further contact with a Kenny Frame
at the Three executive office.

After sending a few emails and recieving a call from the three executive office, they have issued me with
a letter that outlines their final position regarding this change of terms
and conditions, I assume this can be classed as a deadlock letter, a copy of this letter is attached for your
reference.

Ive also attached a copy of Three's terms and conditions that were avaliable as of the 16/04/2011.

As you will see from their letter they claim the 1p charge for sms delivery reports now relates to non-core
services.

I believe they are using this term to try and confuse people who would otherwise be allowed to cancel
their contract without penalty.

Non-core or core services arent outlined in their terms and conditions, so three claiming that the change
relates to this term isnt relevant in this case.

What is relevant is the terms in their terms and conditions that allows me to cancel without penalty if they
make a change to my contract, this has various clauses that can stop me from cancelling without penalty.

These clauses are as follows:

you can end the agreement for such variations as explained in section 10 .
subject to the above you will not be able to end your agreement if such
variations or increase:
(i) is due to change tothe law, government regulation or licence which affect us, or
(ii) which soley relates to additional services: or
(iii) relates soley to add-on(s)

This change doesnt fall under either of these terms, which as per my contract allows me to cancel my contract
without penalty, which Three have failed to let me do.

Three were initially trying to claim that this change comes under point (ii) they quickly backtracked on this
once it was pointed out that their own terms and coditions excluded this from being the case, below is the
relevant sections of the terms and conditions that explain this.

A term in their glossary of terms in their terms and conditions states;

Additional services: additional or supplemental services for which a charge is made in
addition to the fixed periodic charges for your package or add-on(s)

As you can see a charge needs to be made for it to come uder an additional service, at the time a charge
was not made for sms delivery reports so do not fall under being excluded from cancellig without penalty.

This change also doesnt come under point (i) as its not a change made by law, the government or to their licencing
agreement, it also doesnt fall under point (iii) as you will see from the term relating to an add-on from their glossary of
terms in their terms and conditions

Add-on:
For pay mothly customers means
An additional credit that may be bought for specific
supplemental services
(as detailed in the price guide and other customer documetation)


As you can see I shouldnt be excluded from cancelling without penalty I should be allowed to cancel my contract
without any early termination charges.

Three have either ignored or declined my requests to exercise my right to cancel my contract.

As a further point Three have also breached their contract by not giving me the 30 days notice of a change.
They still have not to this day formally informed me of the change, please see below for the relevant term in their
terms and conditions.

4.1 (b) we will let you know at least one calandar month in advance if we decide to
(i) discontinue your package or
(ii) make any variations to your agreement which are likely to be of detriment to you
(iii) increase the fixed periodic charge of your package by any amount that is more than the
percetage increase in the retail price index figure iay 12 month period.


As a resolution to this I would like you to have Three issue my PAC so I am able to move my number to
another network, also to ensure I am able to leave and cancel my contract without penalty, also that
any line rental charges that have been paid from the 6th June untill this matter is resolved to be refuded.

I belive the line rental charges in this period should be refunded, because if three stuck to their responsibilities to
allow me to leave my contract due to this change i wouldnt have had to pay them, instead they have drawn out
this process and ive been forced to pay these line rental charges or have my credit record trashed theough no
fault of my own.


I look forward to recieving your response.

Jon_01

benharvey1985 wrote: »

Or do i have to wait for the ombudsman to rectify the problem then use the pac?

A pac's only valid for 28 days, after that you have to get another one.
Can't see this being resolved in 28 days !

If you use the pac and don't pay they'll blackmark your credit file after a while, if you do pay you might have a task getting it back IF the ombudsman finds for you (which isn't a done deal).
Rock . . . hard place.

sarahxox

After speaking to loads of different customer service reps I ended up giving up and accepting £10 off my next bill due to 'poor customer service', then I just got a telephone call from one of the reps I spoke to and three are going to take £5 off every bill until my contract ends in September 2012! I'm really pleased, seeing as I'd resigned myself to just living without delivery notifications! I don't know why they had a sudden change of heart, maybe they're nervous about the ombudsman??

RichA

I backed down. A part of me does want to pursue this all the way, as I think we've all been mistreated and I hate that - but from a personal point of view the monthly discount £10 works for me. Plus they agreed to remove the simlock on my phone, which I really wanted doing for a number of reasons(issues with flashing android releases on this handset with the simlock still in place - and I can't get on with the bugs that seem to grow with 3's releases). I like 3 in many areas - reception is good where I live, and they've bucked the trend by introducing properly-unlimited data whereas every other provider seems happy to give customers unlimited internet... of 500mb each month. I like being able to see my usage in a timely manner on my handset, and if I'd left my contract I'd have likely lost out on the £109 cashback I'm waiting on through quidco.

I have two handsets - my backup is PAYG with over £30 of credit on it, and free delivery reports. The people I need them for have had that number since 3 introduced charging, so I'll be using that handset for that. I probably only need the receipts on 50-150 messages per month, so the credit will last a good while to come(at 4p per text).

I don't require any further action, as I consider the dispute to be settled now. But can I lodge a complaint with ofcom that the situation arose in the first place, that I was denied my rights to exit the contract, and that it's taken a month to get to this point? I'm not sure...

dulcificum

Jon_01 wrote: »

A pac's only valid for 28 days, after that you have to get another one.
Can't see this being resolved in 28 days !

If you use the pac and don't pay they'll blackmark your credit file after a while, if you do pay you might have a task getting it back IF the ombudsman finds for you (which isn't a done deal).
Rock . . . hard place.

If you pay, pay under protest.

JudasPriest

Snakeeyes21 wrote: »

Right it seems three have pulled their finger out, ive recieved a deadlock letter today,
well a letter outlining their final position, I assume this is the same thing.

Ive going to send an email to the ombudsman, a copy of this is below, maybe somebody could
cast their eye over it, im really not that good at writig these kind of letters..

It's very late in the day for me, so no promises I've not made any dreadful mistakes. I've tried to tidy it up a little for you, but please check it's still saying what you wanted it to.

Dear Sir / Madam,

Thank you for replying to my initial complaint.

I've followed the steps outlined in your attached files and have had further contact with a 'Kenny Frame' at the Three executive office.

After sending a few emails and receiving a call from the Three executive office, they have issued me with a letter that outlines their final position regarding this change of their services, which I assume can be classed as a deadlock letter, and a copy of this is attached for your reference.

I've also attached a copy of Three's terms and conditions that were avaliable as of the 16/04/2011.

As you will see from their letter they claim the 1p charge for sms delivery reports now relates to non-core services. I believe they are using this term to try and confuse people who would otherwise be allowed to cancel their contract without penalty.

Non-core or core services aren't outlined in their terms and conditions, so Three claiming that the change relates to this term isn't relevant in this case.

What is relevant are the clauses within their terms and conditions that allow me to cancel without penalty if they make a change to the services they agreed to provide me with.

These clauses are as follows:

---

You can end the agreement for such variations as explained in Section 10.

Subject to the above, you will not be able to end the agreement if such variation or increase:

(i) is due to changes to the law, government regulation, or licence which affects us; or
(ii) relates solely to Additional Services; or
(iii) relates solely to Add-on(s)

---

This change doesn't fall under any of these terms, which as per my contract allows me to cancel the agreement without penalty, which Three have failed to let me do.

Three were initially trying to claim that this change comes under point (ii); they quickly backtracked on this once it was pointed out that their own terms and coditions made clear this was not the case, and below are the relevant sections of the terms and conditions that explain this.

Their glossary of terms in their terms and conditions defines:

---

Additional Services: additional or supplemental services for which a charge is made in addition to the fixed periodic charges for your package or add-on(s)

---

As you can see a charge needs to be made for it to be classed as an Additional Service. At the time a charge was not made for sms delivery reports beyond my monthly charges for Three's services, so they cannot be classed as an Additional Service, and Three cannot prevent me from being allowed the right to leave the agreed contract for this change.

This change also does not fall under point (i) as its not a change made by law, the government or to their licencing agreement, it also does not fall under point (iii) as you will see from the definition of an Add-on, as defined within their glossary of terms in their terms and conditions.

---

Add-on:
For pay mothly customers means
An additional credit that may be bought for specific supplemental services(as detailed in the price guide and other customer documetation)

---

As you can see I shouldn't be excluded from cancelling without penalty, I should be allowed my contractual rights to cancel my contract without any early termination charges.

Three have either ignored or declined my requests to exercise my right to cancel my contract.

As a further point Three have also breached their contract by not giving me the 30 days notice of a change. This change was announced on their website at or around 16th May 2011, hidden within their help pages, stating charging was to begin on 6th June 2011.

They still have not to this day formally informed me of the change personally - I was only made aware of this change by word of mouth by fellow disgruntled customers. Please see below for the relevant clause in their terms and conditions.

---

4.1 (b) we will let you know at least one calendar month in advance if we decide to
(i) discontinue your package or
(ii) make any variations to your agreement which are likely to be of detriment to you
(iii) increase the fixed periodic charge of your package by an amount that is more than the
percentage increase in the retail price index figure in any 12 month period.

---

As a resolution to this I request to have Three issue my PAC so I am able to move my number to another network, also to ensure I am able to leave and cancel my contract without penalty, and also that any line rental charges that have been paid by me from the 6th June until this matter is resolved to be refunded.

I belive the line rental charges in this period should be refunded, as had Three had adhered to their terms and conditions and allowed me to leave my contract due to this change I would have taken my custom to another network prior to the introduction of charging for this previously included service. Instead, I believe they have not acted in good faith, and deliberately drawn out this process and I'm forced to pay these line rental charges or have my credit record trashed through no fault of my own. The charges paid beyond 5th June 2011 have been paid under protest, in an effort to maintain my credit rating.

I look forward to receiving your response.

It's difficult to go over the words of someone else without making them sound like yourself. Sorry if I've detracted from anything you were trying to say! If anyone else can check over it for me and clear up any mistakes I've introduced, I'd be grateful.

Toe-Jam

credit-card-tart wrote: »

Agree - Will try O2 or possibly Giffgaff which has similar price plans to what I need.

O2 and Giffgaff don't have delivery reports at all.

credit-card-tart

*0# in front of the message will give a delivery report. Although not the same as a proper delivery report. But will be fine for me.

Dave2011

credit-card-tart wrote: »

*0# in front of the message will give a delivery report. Although not the same as a proper delivery report. But will be fine for me.

Correct

There is a way of kinda automating it, but it involves 3 key presses instead of entering it manually with errrrrrrrr 3 key presses :rotfl:

I did send a request to the peeps at Gosms for a settings option for it to be auto added to the start of every sms, they did reply saying they would think about it.

Makeandsave

Anyone heard back from Ofcom or 3?