Is it illegal to pass on your still valid bus day ticket to someone else

geordieracer

Livingthedream wrote: »

And there's me thinking that the transport companies put prices up every year to put a smile on the shareholder's faces.;)

But a question to test your statement and sorry for taking this a bit of topic; When one advises a passenger of a split ticket fare, this saves the passenger a set amount of money but in theory denies the train company out of the correct fare, would this affect future price rises?

In theory, yes it does. But in reality what they are doing is looking at the loadings of trains the previous years and then deciding how many tickets they should release for 'Advance' travel. This is why they have so many restrictions on them. Some trains may only have 10 whereas on the same journey later in the day there may be 30-40.

This is because they are running the trains anyway so they may aswell try and claw the money back - and also for long distance trips or stations that are not NR managed - make a few quid from the shops/pub/paper shop at the station.

bb21

Livingthedream wrote: »

And there's me thinking that the transport companies put prices up every year to put a smile on the shareholder's faces.;)

But a question to test your statement and sorry for taking this a bit of topic; When one advises a passenger of a split ticket fare, this saves the passenger a set amount of money but in theory denies the train company out of the correct fare, would this affect future price rises?

Good question. I don't know the answer. I suppose it depends on the angle from which you look at it. What is the correct fare?

For example, an Off-Peak Day Return between Leicester and Derby is £9.20 and the same ticket between Derby and Sheffield is £8.80. If I want to do a day return trip between Leicester and Sheffield, I can split my ticket into these two and pay a total of £18. However, as with many people, it is usually easier to buy the through-ticket. There is no Off-Peak Day Return on this flow. The cheapest through-ticket is the Off-Peak Return at £23.00. Now all direct trains between Leicester and Sheffield stop at either Derby or Nottingham, and both the Off-Peak Return and the combination of two Off-Peak Day Return tickets will allow me to route via either Derby or Nottingham. It costs no more for East Midlands Trains to transport me for a return trip on the day between Leicester and Sheffield than someone doing a day return on the same train between Leicester and Derby, plus another person doing a day return journey between Derby and Sheffield. I receive no more service from the company by using an Off-Peak Return than the combined total of these two other passengers. Why the an extra £5? It can be argued that the lack of an Off-Peak Day Return for the Leicester - Sheffield flow is a rip-off, just as much as the opinion that the Off-Peak Day Return prices are too low. The very nature of the complexity of the subject that is British railway ticketing implies that the answer can no more be a simplified yes or no than the fares themselves.

However, there is a fundamental difference, in that passing on something that is not transferable is against the rules, and illegal, whether one thinks the rules are fair or not (which is a separate matter). Legitimate ways of saving money is not. One might not like the rules and perceive them as unfair, however without rules there will be no structure and the society will just degenerate into a big pile of mess. Rules can be challenged, nevertheless only in the correct manner and through appropriate channels.

So to answer your question, no I don't think these matters are the same. In my opinion, passengers who save money in legitimate ways are not stealing from other people as they have paid for the service just like other people have. If a company ends up losing money in the long run due to many more travellers taking advantage of these legitimate techniques, then I believe that the price has been set too low.

Livingthedream

BB21 & Geordieracer, thank you for your answers and I can see the argument for both your points of view.

Perhaps one for another thread or a different forum on another day, as to be honest I think this thread has run it's course.

dzug1

bb21 wrote: »

. It costs no more for East Midlands Trains to transport me for a return trip on the day between Leicester and Sheffield than someone doing a day return on the same train between Leicester and Derby, plus another person doing a day return journey between Derby and Sheffield.

But the COST to East Midlands is irrelevant in setting the fare if we assume a market economy (which it isn't, but it's trying to be). The cost determines whether the company stays in business, not what it charges, which is what it thinks the demand will bear. It may get that wrong, but it is what is happening.

Farzackerly

janninew wrote: »

I use to stick my ticket on the machine at my local town centre, you can only pay for a minimum of 1 hour (at the cost of £1.30) and sometimes I only nip to the Library and my ticket still has 50 odd mins left. I did this one day last month and the council ticket man told me off!! Now I just flag a car down in the car park before they park and pass it on, they always seem very grateful!

Exactly that happened to me last week. I was parking for ten minutes but when I got the ticket machine, the minimum period was three hours and two quid. Just then, a woman who was leaving gave me her unexpired ticket, with two hours left on it. Result!
I stuck the still-unexpired ticket in the slot of the ticket machine before I left.

Farzackerly

dzug1 wrote: »

Fine - basically you are dishonest when it suits you. I don't have a problem with that - I do have a problem with you thinking it's 'right'.

Jeez, can the holier-than-thou sheet, willya.
You trying to tell us you've never done something similar? If so, I'll call you a liar, right now, and save all the hypocritical posturing from you.

dzug1

Farzackerly wrote: »

Jeez, can the holier-than-thou sheet, willya.
You trying to tell us you've never done something similar? If so, I'll call you a liar, right now, and save all the hypocritical posturing from you.

Not holier than though at all. What's hypocritical would pretending it's honest - rather than doing it anyway and admitting it's not.

judywoody

dzug1 wrote: »

Not holier than though at all. What's hypocritical would pretending it's honest - rather than doing it anyway and admitting it's not.

Or telling others that what they are doing is wrong despite doing it yourself...

And nobody said it was right - if anything we brought up reasons why we would do it anyway and keep a clean conscience :-)

asbokid

Farzackerly wrote: »

Exactly that happened to me last week. I was parking for ten minutes but when I got the ticket machine, the minimum period was three hours and two quid. Just then, a woman who was leaving gave me her unexpired ticket, with two hours left on it. Result! I stuck the still-unexpired ticket in the slot of the ticket machine before I left.

If I had of been the technican for the private parking company what manged the carpark i would of let your tyre's down on principal.

dzug1

judywoody wrote: »

Or telling others that what they are doing is wrong despite doing it yourself...

And nobody said it was right - if anything we brought up reasons why we would do it anyway and keep a clean conscience :-)

Um yes - exactly what I was saying. Keeping a clean conscience is to me the same as saying it's right.