I know this is petty but... it's BOUGHT not BROUGHT!

Mind_the_Gap

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

Has anyone had a rant about "floor"/"ground" yet? Even presenters on TV and radio appear not to understand the distinction now. Poorly educated people could be excused by the charitable but those who are supposed to be better-educated should not, in my opinion.

The glottal stop! It's a fact that those who use Estuary English often bandy this one about like there's no tomorrow but it's absolutely unforgiveable on the telly. Especially on the BBC. That bint on the BBC1 early morning news is especially guilty of it. I think I'll write a letter to my MP.

Is your MP sufficiently educated to understand? Most of them went to boys' public schools, remember, where the only really important curriculum subjects are cricket and bullying.

I must confess that for me, the most irritating non-standard usage which radio and TV presenters seem to produce more than the standard one these days is 'less' rather than the standard 'fewer' with countable nouns : less people, less cars on the road, etc.

I suppose eventually it will take over and become standard, but in the interim I shall continue to feel mildly grumpy about it.

happilass

i really hate this, "bored of", generation, in fact, I'm so bored with it.;)
Happi

ericonabike

Gotcha! I'm willing to bet that most of this thread's readers curl their lips and have to go and have a lie down with Jane Austen when they see that in print. But, as an experiment, try saying 'got you' out loud. As you normally would, not placing special emphasis on it.

How does it sound? Like 'Gott yew'? Or 'Goh chew'? If you listen to what folk say, it's generally well different [!] from [see, I can do grammar] the 'received pronunciation' which is what they read to themselves. When words are written as they're pronounced it's seen as a sign of laziness/ignorance/poor education. Yet when we use those words in conversation, our pronunciation of them rarely matches the way in which we think we pronounce them!

As I've said in a previous post, it's only relatively recently that spelling etc has become standardised - and even now there are enough variances to keep pedants like us in a state of perpetual disapproval if we wish - ever wondered why it's necessary for newpapers to have style guides? I now treat it as I try to treat bad driving - if I spot a howler I just smile inwardly and move on, rather than press the apoplexy button...

googler

ericonabike wrote: »

How does it sound? Like 'Gott yew'? Or 'Goh chew'? If you listen to what folk say, it's generally well different [!] from [see, I can do grammar] the 'received pronunciation' which is what they read to themselves.

'perceived pronunciation', not 'received' .....

In the same way, it's 'perceived wisdom', not 'received wisdom'.

geri1965_2

googler wrote: »

'perceived pronunciation', not 'received' .....

So why is it referred to as RP then?

googler

geri1965 wrote: »

So why is it referred to as RP then?

Because those who don't know better have 'perceived' these phrases as including the word 'received' instead of 'perceived' and are gradually propogating their mistake to others.

Look them up and consider the two alternatives in context. An appropriate example for this forum might be ;

"The perceived wisdom is that everybody looks on Rightmove for property"

NOT "The received wisdom..."

i.e. the person making the statement perceives that the general view (wisdom) is that everybody.... their perception of that general wisdom is such.

How can you make 'received' fit the same example? What would it mean in that context?

jackyann

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

Has anyone had a rant about "floor"/"ground" yet? Even presenters on TV and radio appear not to understand the distinction now. Poorly educated people could be excused by the charitable but those who are supposed to be better-educated should not, in my opinion.

The glottal stop! It's a fact that those who use Estuary English often bandy this one about like there's no tomorrow but it's absolutely unforgiveable on the telly. Especially on the BBC. That bint on the BBC1 early morning news is especially guilty of it. I think I'll write a letter to my MP.

I very much hope that someone who rants about glottal stops is using the word "bint" ironically. Of course, irony is another manner of speaking that excludes people who don't "get it".

I have to add, in the interests of accuracy that I am quite sure that the term is "received pronunciation" as in "received at court" ie: the correct way of speaking. Maybe someone out there knows the definitive answer?

geri1965_2

googler wrote: »

Because those who don't know better have 'perceived' these phrases as including the word 'received' instead of 'perceived' and are gradually propogating their mistake to others.

Look them up and consider the two alternatives in context. An appropriate example for this forum might be ;

"The perceived wisdom is that everybody looks on Rightmove for property"

NOT "The received wisdom..."

i.e. the person making the statement perceives that the general view (wisdom) is that everybody.... their perception of that general wisdom is such.

How can you make 'received' fit the same example? What would it mean in that context?

Received means "accepted as true and worthy" in this context.

BitterAndTwisted

jackyann wrote: »

I very much hope that someone who rants about glottal stops is using the word "bint" ironically. Of course, irony is another manner of speaking that excludes people who don't "get it".

Yes, of course I was. I assumed that it would have been rather obvious but apparently not. Do you know anyone who uses that word in normal conversation? I don't, although I do know what it means and how it came to enter the language but I wouldn't expect that many other people to know unless they were linguists

noh

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

Yes, of course I was. I assumed that it would have been rather obvious but apparently not. Do you know anyone who uses that word in normal conversation? I don't, although I do know what it means and how it came to enter the language but I wouldn't expect that many other people to know unless they were linguists

I do use the word. But then I'm from Essex!
I also do know where it came from and what the original Arabic meaning is.
I'm not a linguist although my native language is Estuary English.