Using CCTV evidence against Atos....

Errata

An interesting thread, as are the others the OP started. Reading through, I can't discover any solid evidence the OP has that confirms the start and end times of the assessment other than that provided by the assessor. I can also only find that the only health problem the OP's father has is swollen knees.
Have I misunderstood everything?

cit_k

Errata wrote: »

An interesting thread, as are the others the OP started. Reading through, I can't discover any solid evidence the OP has that confirms the start and end times of the assessment other than that provided by the assessor. I can also only find that the only health problem the OP's father has is swollen knees.
Have I misunderstood everything?

They have copies of cctv evidence from the taxi firm, showing when they left the assessment center.

Professional (as taxi cctv should be) CCTV will be data/time stamped so the date / time of any incident is known, and to help with admissibility in legal matters.

As the start time of the assessment is known, its only the end time that is needed to work out the duration. As they have footage showing them leaving the building - at a time when the assessor states in the report the medical was still taking place, that is solid proof the timings on the report are wrong.

Errata

They don't need footage of them leaving the building, the evidence is in the signing out log, surely?

iluvmarmite

But surely CCTV footage of them leaving the building is NOT evidence and would not stand up in court, how does anyone know they didnt go to the toilet? sat down somewhere else for a while before leaving? spoke to someone at reception for a while before leaving? Seeing someone leaving a building is not proof of the time they actually left an office.

System

iluvmarmite wrote: »

But surely CCTV footage of them leaving the building is NOT evidence and would not stand up in court, how does anyone know they didnt go to the toilet? sat down somewhere else for a while before leaving? spoke to someone at reception for a while before leaving? Seeing someone leaving a building is not proof of the time they actually left an office.

And also was the CCTV timestamp system accurate? Can its accuracy on that day be verified by E.G. a view of a clock on the same tape?

cit_k

Errata wrote: »

They don't need footage of them leaving the building, the evidence is in the signing out log, surely?

What signing out log? This is atos, some of their assessment centers cant even cope with emergency evacuation of disabled people - they admit that themselves.

Many centers dont even have wheelchair access?

I have never had to sign out of any of their centers when I had medicals, their h&s is pretty much non existant.

cit_k

iluvmarmite wrote: »

But surely CCTV footage of them leaving the building is NOT evidence and would not stand up in court, how does anyone know they didnt go to the toilet? sat down somewhere else for a while before leaving? spoke to someone at reception for a while before leaving? Seeing someone leaving a building is not proof of the time they actually left an office.

We are not talking about someone leaving a building later than it was claimed.

We are talking about evidence that shows they were leaving the building at a time when the assessor states they were still sitting in the building being medically assessed.

iluvmarmite

I was just going by what another poster had said about it, but anway doesnt the medical go on what you can and cant do and not what times you enter and leave the assessement? Maybe it was just a mistake by the examiner and not anything malicious

FTW

iluvmarmite wrote: »

I was just going by what another poster had said about it, but anway doesnt the medical go on what you can and cant do and not what times you enter and leave the assessement?

No, it doesn't. A WCA assessment doesn't go into that much detail, and nor does it even tell you what types of work you can or can't do - which you'd think would be a key point.

iluvmarmite wrote: »

Maybe it was just a mistake by the examiner and not anything malicious

But then you could always argue that since this supposed to be a medical assessment, that there is no room for mistakes.

cit_k

iluvmarmite wrote: »

I was just going by what another poster had said about it, but anway doesnt the medical go on what you can and cant do and not what times you enter and leave the assessement? Maybe it was just a mistake by the examiner and not anything malicious

As said above, the medical does not concentrate on any real life work place stuff, and its more than one 'mistake' its not just the end time, its timings of how long they claimed the person could do other things, which rely on the exam taking longer than it really did.

As for being a mistake, considering for ESA 40 percent of tribunal decisions are found in favour of the claimaint, that says to me, there are to many mistakes for it to be anything other than deliberate.

Even worse under IB, where 60 to 70 percent of decisions were found in favour of the client at tribunal.

ESA was designed to fail more people both initially and at tribunal, hence why tribunal stats are worse for claimaints now.

Besides, if its a mistake, the nurse will admit to it surely when a complaint is lodged and the footage wont be required.

Except Im willing to bet, they wont.