Using CCTV evidence against Atos....

chinna

fluffymovie wrote: »

Oh good lord, I really try to bite my tongue on this board sometimes but I have literally just turned my laptop on to reply to this. I would warn you all that this is not a nice post but I do not believe it contravenes any rules on MSE. feel free to add me to your ignore list before or after reading however!!

Firstly I will start off by saying I am not great fan of ESA in any of it's forms and as someone who works in HB /CTB, I make it my job to ensure that I advise claimants the maximum way to get their benefits in the right way.

However, the emotive language you have used Chinna has really done it for me today.

Emotive language. Where in the thread have I used emotive language??

Do people not make mistakes Chinna? Have you never made a mistake? Regardless of what field it is in, people are only human. What allowance are you making for that? None it would seem.

How do you conclude the nurse made a mistake. Have you spoken to her??. I was there at the assesment and witnessed it all. She has lied through out the report with the duration standing out.

The accused have a right of reply. You are making some very serious allegations that this 1 person who works within a system which is far from perfect even when it works well, has willfully lied. What advantage do you think they will gain from this? Money??? No. Fun???? No.

Read up on Atos on the internet. The company is a failure. She will get bonuses...more money....hitting performance targets...promotion.

You almost appear excited about the prospect of blackening someone's career. This person may have made a mistake or not, they may have lied but you seem to be taking joy in this, in my view.

This is a medical professional. And they have produced a document which is made up.Is this not fraud?

You have said that this person has caused your dad harm? Has his condition worsened since you read the report? If not, then physically nothing has changed. Financially, he has been found fit for work and can sign on for other benefits. If he is very unwell, I would expect him to be getting DLA so he isn't without any funds.

Yes his condition has worsened without no money. Also the stress has made his condition worse. Found fit to work by a medical examiner who maybe has commited fraud.

Also, you are so hell bent on showing how clever you have been to get the CCTV that you have not made a complaint to the right people but have vented on a board on which we all remain anonymous. Doesn't sound like it'll help your Dad's case much.

Where have I been bragging in the thread??. I have been phoning CAB but they only offer a telephone service till 1pm and do not answer the phone. Wefare rights are also open till 1pm and do not answer their phone. I work full time so thought I would get feedback from the forum whilst I try to get through to CAB etc.

As I said, I am sure this wasn't nice to read and I am sorry for that but tbh, I just had to get it out. It isn't personal Chinna but I had to say it. Sorry

Whats the point in saying sorry after saying all that.

chinna

fluffymovie wrote: »

True enough, I am currently dealing with an overpayment of over £40,000 Housing Benefit from a fraudulent pensioner who lied about who his landlord was when in fact it was 3 of his sons and I would love to go to the papers about it but we won't because he is elderly. Oh no, that doesn't agree with your point does it?

I think I will just bow out now.

Do people not make mistakes fluffymovie ? Have you never made a mistake? Regardless of what field it is in, people are only human. What allowance are you making for that? None it would seem.

Hastobe_Katt

dmg24 wrote: »

Would it not have been far simpler to have asked the taxi driver to give you a receipt which stated the pick up time?

dmg24 - you have serious issues. Perhaps it's because the OP isn't psychic and so couldn't anticipate that ATOS would add 35 minutes onto the medical?

Kudos to you for fighting your dad's corner. Ignore some of the idiots on here who seem to have a permanent chip on their shoulder. Karma will give them ill health one day....

cit_k

Going after the nurse/ATOS and the tribunal are two seperate things really, although both can be used to support the other.

As people have said, proving the nurse lied or made a serious mistake (either way should be enough to get the nurse investigated) wont get any points at tribunal, the tribunal will still need to examine the evidence and question the father in order to determine what points if any should be awarded.

However, there is no hard I can see in going for ATOS/Nurse/DWP and attending the tribunal.
I recommend getting a welfare rights representative if possible to go with you and help you with your case though.

They probably will not be interested in helping you complain about the nurse or atos though, they only concentrate on the actual tribunal.

fluffymovie

You're right chinna. Didn't need to apologise as entitled to my view as indeed are you
Of course

And saying that your landlords aren't related to you when they are your own children isn't a mistake, it's fraud. 6 different times btw

Invalidation

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

But none of this will get any points for the father. He needs points to get his ESA.

And if the report was falsified he needs to re asessed

Anyway, I don't think it proves anyone has 'lied'. There could just have been a mistake made.

What you'think' isnt relevant Thats for the police to sort out.
Falsifying an official document is a crime. If the assessor has falsified that what else have they falsified.
If ATOS take no prisoners, neither should we.

spherelance

fluffymovie wrote: »

And saying that your landlords aren't related to you when they are your own children isn't a mistake, it's fraud. 6 different times btw

So in that one case it isn't a mistake but you are quite happy to say the nurse in question could have made a mistake without any of the facts. Maybe, just maybe, in this case (chinna's) it also isn't a mistake.

I'm sure in your line of work you have come across people who have made a mistake but you still have to investigate it to make sure, well the same applies here the nurse in question needs to be investigated.

When the tribunal look at the evidence a discredited report will not carry much weight. Oh no that doesn't agree with your point does it?

FTW

Invalidation wrote: »

And if the report was falsified he needs to re asessed
What you'think' isnt relevant Thats for the police to sort out.
Falsifying an official document is a crime. If the assessor has falsified that what else have they falsified.
If ATOS take no prisoners, neither should we.

Even so, for now, it's still worth concentrating solely on the points aspect - because that's what the tribunal will be looking at.

There's too much to lose by hoping that the tribunal disregards their report outright, because they may very well not do that on the day itself.

The OP should focus on amassing as much medical evidence (from doctors, specialists, etc) as possible, and then using that evidence to present a written report stating where points should have been applied.

If the OP's already stated that there are inconsistencies in the report itself, then it's that aspect that should be focused on for the time being.

The legality and falsification is another matter, but there's nothing to stop it from being mentioned at the tribunal itself.

If the tribunal agrees with that point and disregards the report purely on that basis, then all well and good.

But there's too much at stake to hope that they will - and so it's best to be extra-cautious and have other avenues to fall back on.

This is merely what other users here are saying and they're right.

I'm sure you'll agree that there's absolutely nothing wrong with making doubly sure that Atos don't win.

MissMoneypenny

Hastobe_Katt wrote: »

Karma will give them ill health one day....

If you believe in karma, then you should realise that karma also takes some peoples welfare payments away.

OP, if your father is desparate for money, can he sign on for JSA? From what you have said, he doesn't speak English, so the odds of him getting offered a job will be very slim. I assume he could then apply for sickness benefit again at a later date if his appeal fails?

When will he be 65?

yappycat

spherelance wrote: »

So in that one case it isn't a mistake but you are quite happy to say the nurse in question could have made a mistake without any of the facts. Maybe, just maybe, in this case (chinna's) it also isn't a mistake.

I'm sure in your line of work you have come across people who have made a mistake but you still have to investigate it to make sure, well the same applies here the nurse in question needs to be investigated.

When the tribunal look at the evidence a discredited report will not carry much weight. Oh no that doesn't agree with your point does it?

However, many people here are also happy to say that the nurse lied in a malicious and calculated fashion, they have exactly the same 'facts' at their disposal.
The OP describes the inaccuracy in the assessment as a deliberate act intended to 'punish' his/her father. However if all their appeal does is to discredit the original report without providing solid evidence that the claimant scores the required points to satisfy the assessment criteria then the end result will logically have to be yet another assessment dragging the whole process on for even longer? This to me is a worse 'punishment' seeing as on appeal you should state that you wish your benefit to continue to be paid during the appeal process so that you're not left with no money.

Personally I would fight the appeal based on what most people here have said - ie. the assessment criteria and points scoring. Ofc I would include the factual inaccuracies presented in the medical report but I wouldn't structure my entire grounds for appeal around that. I'd get the appeal sorted first (because surely this is what's more important - getting the benefit you are entitled to receive?) then after that I would pursue the separate issue of the accusations made against the nurse in question (if I was so inclined to do so).

TBH there is no way to prove that the inaccuracy in the report was deliberate or simply a case of someone typing a wrong figure. At best you'd get a reply saying 'we'll investigate' and an apology of sorts, so quite frankly I'd avoid pouring my energy into what arguably looks like a witch-hunt and instead concentrate on solid medical evidence to support the appeal, discreditting the report entirely will not satisfy the assessment criteria whatsoever.