WARNING SOLAR PANELS & some Siemens S2AS-100/ Siemens S1AS-100 Meters

Terrylw1

utility_csa wrote: »

Utility warehouse = part of n power I believe.
Npower = meter asset provider.
Meter plus = npowers metering team
Yorkshire elec = YELG = Npower.

You could ask ovo to appoint Npower as meter operator but i doubt they would.

True, but the customer has no contract with MOP/MAP's so they can refuse to help without the issue coming via the supplier. If customers start calling them they tend to complain via their contract managers to prevent it.

So, if they won't discuss it/help, it may be this.

In terms if the MAP change, its unlikely unless they have a contract in place already or an agent management strategy to use them in the future.

They tend to just inherit them via the switch but some suppliers change contracts hence new MAP's.

Terrylw1

jkpaul wrote: »

So, last Monday (16th July) I sent the following message to Ovo Feedback - starting their complaints procedure.

[sorry for the wordy post - feel free to skip this if you've been following the saga so far!]



Ovo auto-responded and promised a reply within 5 working days.

Tonight they called me at 5.55pm to suggest a totally unexpected solution: would we be interested in moving our account back to E.ON? :silenced:

This sounds a bit barmy, as in the first place I moved from E.ON to Ovo for a cheaper (and hopefully better) service! :rotfl:

The rationale was that as a small supplier they don't have the systems in place to get the relevant data from the faulty Siemens meter, however they said, as a large supplier, E.ON will have such processes and it wouldn't be a problem for them, and Ovo would waive the early departure fee and accept whatever data comes from the buggy Siemens meter. :wall:

I asked whether they knew that E.ON have such software / hardware / systems and she said, "I'm sure they will have" ... I'm not exactly brimming with confidence yet!

I am trying to get in touch with Siemens (perhaps they can help?!) and E.ON now, to see whether they do have the know-how to resolve this, but I'm not very optimistic as I tried to contact them last week and after several failed attempts, got through to someone in the FIT / Customer Services team who said they'd write the details on our old account page & when we'd sorted it with Ovo, to come back and they would follow suit. So it didn't seem to ring a bell as something they are used to or even aware of!

So my question is this ... does anyone know of someone who has had this issue and found a company who can get the data off the Siemens S2AS meter?

Thanks!
P

Its not the supplier so what OVO have said is rubbish.

The question is who has a contract in place with an agent licensed to do the work.

Someone at OVO won't know this, they are just saying a mainstream supplier "should", "probably will", etc.

So, you are doing the right thing by checking.

Ask Eon who they have to this and check if they have such a licence per the Utility Act.

Utility_csa - can it be accesses without breaking the seals? Just wondering whether it can be done by a MOP or manufacturer...or in a few years time a 6 year old hacker...:rotfl:

espresso

utility_csa wrote: »

So in reality the meter just needs programming to show the cumulative export. Only issue is with reprogramming their is always the risk of data being lost.

The meter does not require reprogramming to read the internal registers in order to recalculate jkpaul's bills accurately and that is the first priority.

All that is required to interrogate the meters internal registers e.g. import, export is a simple optical read-out probe that complies to IEC 1107/EN 61107. This is connects to a netbook/laptop etc. to display the contents of the various non-volatile internal registers.

Example Optical reader here

Data sheet here

Another optical probe here

It really is pathetic that the electricity suppliers resort to making inaccurate guestimated recalculations, when the information is stored in the meters internal registers. It is easy to access this data and the bill can then be recalculated accurately i.e. actual exported units not added to imported units.

Terrylw1

espresso wrote: »

The meter does not require reprogramming to read the internal registers in order to recalculate jkpaul's bills accurately and that is the first priority.

All that is required to interrogate the meters internal registers e.g. import, export is a simple optical read-out probe that complies to IEC 1107/EN 61107. This is connects to a netbook/laptop etc. to display the contents of the various non-volatile internal registers.

Example Optical reader here

Data sheet here

Another optical probe here

It really is pathetic that the electricity suppliers resort to making inaccurate guestimated recalculations, when the information is stored in the meters internal registers. It is easy to access this data and the bill can then be recalculated accurately i.e. actual exported units not added to imported units.

The supplier isn't able to do that and would depend on the MOP.

Can the MOP do it under their licence? If not, how can the supplier get to it?

Suppliers have been doing estimates on accuracy, time switch, stopped metering back into the nationalised days.

espresso

Terrylw1 wrote: »

The supplier isn't able to do that and would depend on the MOP.

Can the MOP do it under their licence? If not, how can the supplier get to it?

Suppliers have been doing estimates on accuracy, time switch, stopped metering back into the nationalised days.

Are you saying that the supplier cannot request that the MOP provides the data stored in the meter that they have provided, so that they can charge their customer accurately for what they have used.

There is no need for estimations to be made.

Terrylw1

espresso wrote: »

Are you saying that the supplier cannot request that the MOP provides the data stored in the meter that they have provided, so that they can charge their customer accurately for what they have used.

There is no need for estimations to be made.

The Meter Operator can't break any seals. So if in retrieving this data, they have to do this, such as internal only memory, they can't. They would have to hold a licence to test & repair but Meter Operators never did this and would use onsite testing & check metering to do these tests. If an internal test is required it would be the Meter Examiner if the customer pushed it to that stage or it would be the manufacturer.

I'm not as familiar with these so I don't know if they can access the data via the console. If so, the customer could also don't do this. If not and they haven't obtained this addition to licence, they wouldn't be able to do it...which is why suppliers still use estimation.

espresso

Terrylw1 wrote: »

The Meter Operator can't break any seals. So if in retrieving this data, they have to do this, such as internal only memory, they can't..................

The optical reader required to access the data in the meters internal registers communicates via infrared light like a TV remote, therfore no seals need to be broken. The probe is very simple and complies to an international standard - it's so simple that if I had this problem I would have made a probe myself to access the data, five components and a plug!



I really find it hard to believe how ignorant the electricity supply industry is on this topic and how they think that a recalculated bill based on inaccurate estimates is acceptable to their customers, when the actual data has been recorded and is easily accessible to them with minimal effort

I can understand that a typical call centre operator would not even understand what the customer was talking about but they should put you though to the right technical department that does fully understand this and is then able to ensure that their customer is billed accurately.

Why should any customer accept an estimated bill when the actual data is available - it is simply not necessary!

jkpaul

Terrylw1 wrote: »

I'm not as familiar with these so I don't know if they can access the data via the console. If so, the customer could also don't do this. If not and they haven't obtained this addition to licence, they wouldn't be able to do it...which is why suppliers still use estimation.

Terrylw1 I think I understand what you mean but I think Freud must have helped you with that typing - an errant don't appeared as well!

espresso wrote: »

There is no need for estimations to be made.

:T

espresso wrote: »

It really is pathetic that the electricity suppliers resort to making inaccurate guestimated recalculations, when the information is stored in the meters internal registers. It is easy to access this data and the bill can then be recalculated accurately i.e. actual exported units not added to imported units.

:A

espresso I completely agree, thanks for expressing it so clearly - I'm sure that will help me when I decide who should be my next target.

I have to confess I am still quite confused, I know I should probably just go back & badger Ovo but are there any others I could try to pester / rope in before resorting to that again?

jkpaul

espresso wrote: »

The optical reader required to access the data in the meters internal registers communicates via infrared light like a TV remote, therfore no seals need to be broken. The probe is very simple and complies to an international standard - it's so simple that if I had this problem I would have made a probe myself to access the data, five components and a plug!

I'd love to be able to do that but am electronically challenged I'm afraid ... would a probe be expensive or do you fancy making one for an affordable fee?!

Would the software then be an issue or would it just come off as a csv or something? That I could cope with!

espresso wrote: »

I really find it hard to believe how ignorant the electricity supply industry is on this topic and how they think that a recalculated bill based on inaccurate estimates is acceptable to their customers, when the actual data has been recorded and is easily accessible to them with minimal effort

I can understand that a typical call centre operator would not even understand what the customer was talking about but they should put you though to the right technical department that does fully understand this and is then able to ensure that their customer is billed accurately.

Why should any customer accept an estimated bill when the actual data is available - it is simply not necessary!

:A

I couldn't have put it better myself (I've tried several times!) ... thanks!

espresso

jkpaul wrote: »

I'd love to be able to do that but am electronically challenged I'm afraid ... would a probe be expensive or do you fancy making one for an affordable fee?!

Perhaps I should not have said that I would have made a probe myself and read the internal registers as I realise not everybody could do this for themselves. I was simply trying to show just how simple it is to retrieve this data and I see no valid reason why this data cannot be read by your supplier or for them to make arrangements for it to be read so that your billing can be corrected accurately.

In post #144 over one year ago, I posted a link to another company selling optical probes here who may be able to help as I do not have the time to get involved, sorry I can't be more helpful.

The point is that you should not need to read the data yourself. The electricity supply companies are eager for your custom but then seem totally ignorant and unhelpful when solar PV metering problems are discovered by their customers - some customers have waited years for their meter to be replaced and once the meter is exchanged the data is lost.

They are quite happy to incorrectly bill you for your generated units added to your consumed units and surely this must break the terms of their licence to supply and should be investigated by the ombudsman or some regulatory body?

I personally would only accept an estimated recalculated bill after reading the registers and making sure that I was receiving at least what I was owed - preferably a fair bit more due to all of the inconvenience and wasted time speaking to unhelpful idiots.