Brother and SIL splitting up-advice needed! (long)

MrsBryan_2

Hi all.
Having never experienced any break up in my family or friends lives, this has really knocked us all for six.
I know there's lots of you out there who have unfortunatley gone through this kind of thing and I would really like some advice. I'll try not to go on and on!

My brother and SIL have been together for 20 years, married for 10, and have 2 kids aged 11 and 14.
Approx 6 weeks ago, out of the blue, she tells my brother that she isn't happy, he hasn't been paying her any attention and she's been getting a lot of attention from other men and for the first time in their marriage, she's thinking of cheating. He was obviously devastated.
Then she calls me up at work, crying her eyes out, telling me what she's just told my brother, saying how she's broken his heart and feels awful for it but can't help how she feels. I was so shocked I just sort of mumbled my way through the conversation and then called my brother.
He was heartbroken but sure they could work things out, as they both didn't want to throw away 20 years. So thats what they've been doing for the last few weeks.

Then Monday morning I get a phone call from my brother saying SIL wants to have a break from each other because she feels its not working. She'd told him that she's kissed two other men when she's been out with her friends, one of them she's been calling and texting, and that she wants to be single(!)
She stayed at her friends Mon Tues and Wed night, coming back every night for a couple of hours to see the kids, have a bath, ignore my brother then go back out again. When she came back Thursday, she told him she hadn't missed him, doesn't love him as a husband but will always love him as a person, it's not him its her blah blah all the cliches. She just wants to be single, feels like she's missed out on life because she was only 17 when she got with him, and had children young.
She goes from not having a care in the world, to uncontrollable sobbing. It's SO out of character, she's been a wonderful mum and wife to my neice and nephew and brother, and a friend to me. She's been like a sister to me. I can't believe she has thrown away all that she's got so that she can be single. My dad thinks she's having an affair but she swears all she's done is kiss 2 men and text and call ne of them.
My brother doesn't know what to do, what to believe........he still had hope it might just be a phase or midlife crisis but she's told him it's definitely over. He's been at our mums since Friday eve, he's going back home tomorrow. He's been back every day to see the kids, and is so, so gutted. He doesn't want to end up in a bedsit somewhere, seeing the kids every other weekend he said it would kill him.
I've just got a few questions I thought you all might be able to help him with.
What should be his first step?
I think he needs to seek legal advice asap and I think he is going to next week, but at the moment they've decided to get the house valued and sell up to pay their debts off. (They've just took out a big loan, 6 months ago, over 10 years).
Everyone's telling him to chuck her out on the street but he doesn't want it to get nasty because of the kids.
In the eyes of the law, what is classed as adultery? I would class snogging as adultery but my dad thinks you have to have sex with someone for it to become adultery.
Do the courts automatically side with the mother? From the way she's behaved (there's alot more to the story that I don't want to write) my brother could get really nasty but he won't.
I feel like she's getting away with everything, and I want her to be 'punished' for what she's doing. She txt me saying she thinks the world of me and will always love me, sorry for everything and thanks for beig a wonderful friend and SIL for all these years. I txt back and gave her a massive piece of my mind, but didn't carry it on as I don't want to make things any worse.
Basically it's a massive mess, and if anyone could give me and advice to pass on, I'd be so grateful. Sorry for going on!!
J x

jackieglasgow

My advice would be to keep your nose out, sorry if that sounds harsh but your brother needs to sort things out for himself, other people getting involved will only make it worse for everyone.

ailuro2

Classic mid life crisis symptoms, I'd suggest they go for counselling, offer to take the kids for a weekend while they go away somewhere to talk things over ( without their mobiles being switched on, of course)

The kissing other men thing is a symptom rather than a cause od problems, but after 20 years it's a bit soon to be talking divorce and being single.

pigpen

jackieglasgow wrote: »

My advice would be to keep your nose out, sorry if that sounds harsh but your brother needs to sort things out for himself, other people getting involved will only make it worse for everyone.

Absolutely.. nothing worse than relatives sticking their oar in.

Support your brother, hug him when he needs a hug listen to him rant but keep your opinion to yourself.

Mupette

As others have said, Don't get involved, be there for your brother ofc, but don't get involved, it will / can backfire and you get blamed

Mojisola

MrsBryan wrote: »

Do the courts automatically side with the mother? From the way she's behaved (there's alot more to the story that I don't want to write) my brother could get really nasty but he won't.
I feel like she's getting away with everything, and I want her to be 'punished' for what she's doing.

You really need to distance yourself from the situation and, while you might feel like this, try to keep it to yourself.

Divorce these days is about separating - not about blame and punishment. The children are old enough to choose what they want to do. If they want to stay with their Dad, then he and they would be able to stay in the family house. If she "wants to be single" for a while, she's not likely to want the children around.

Relationship counselling would be worth trying before anything else.

Pollycat

I thought I'd read something similar recently:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3181456=

It sounds like things have moved on since that thread.

You had lots of advice on the above thread about not taking sides etc and you've had the same advice here.

I would agree with that and suggest you be supportive to your brother, maybe go with him to a solicitor etc.
I do think that should be his first step.

I think your question about what constitutes adultery (kissing or sex) is totally irrelevant.
Your SIL seemed pretty sure she doesn't want to continue in her marriage so does it really matter whether she's been unfaithful or not?

Being 'guilty' of adultery (on its own) won't affect any decision the court makes on custody of the children.
Is that what you mean by 'siding with the mother'?

As much as you feel outraged on your brother's behalf, I don't think you texting your SIL and "giving her a massive piece of your mind" is going to help matters.

As you and she were obviously very close, you'd be much better acting as a mediator between them if you can bring yourself to do that.

Why should she be 'punished'?
She's decided that she doesn't want to be married anymore and at least she's not dragged things out for ages.

surreybased

Generally I agree with the others to say not to get involved however your SIL as involved you so it's natural to respond. Counselling should be considered but I suspect your SIL wants out and isn't looking to fix the marriage. Sadly thsi might be the case for your brother and the children.

I agree your brother needs legal advice - why did he move from the family home, he should find a way to stay there until the house is sold. Yes the family courts still favour mums who have typically been the full time carer for the children however as the children are older they could be consulted about who they want to live with.

Your SIL seems to have made her mind up - society is generally much more tolerant when women have affairs, rather than men. The assumption is that they must have had a reason - I don't believe this, women have affairs for the same reasons as men - often selfish reasons and looking for excitement.

Your brother should focus on him and the children - make sure he offers a stable place for them, both physically and emotionally. He should look at the finanical options - if he moves out and the children reside with the mum she will get the majority of equity (less joint debts) in the house and he will have to pay child mantenance which is 20% of his net salary.
I could encourage your brother to remain positive - he can get over this and at least he has a supportive family. Could your brother continue to work and look after the children after school?

There is are also some useful books - Not just friends, by Shirley Glass, which will help to explain the reasons why people have affairs and Putting children first - a guide for separated parents

Padstow

jackieglasgow wrote: »

My advice would be to keep your nose out, sorry if that sounds harsh but your brother needs to sort things out for himself, other people getting involved will only make it worse for everyone.

100% agree. Nothing to do with you. If people stopped interfering, gossiping and posting rumours on Facebook, a lot more marriages would survive.

MrsBryan_2

Thanks for all your replies.
It's easy to say 'keep your nose out' but when I see my brother so upset and totally gutted just because she wants to be with other men, it's hard not to get involved........but I'm really trying not to, I know it's good advice. Its just hard.
She doesn't want to try counselling, she just says the marriage is over. Wants to be single. She is still assuring him that he's done nothing wrong, he's been the perfect husband and father it's just where her head is at the moment. It is just so out of character for her to behave like this.
Now it seems to be moving very quickly, they're getting the house valued on Tuesday, and he hasn't even got any legal advice yet.
I do think it matters if she's been unfaithful Pollycat, would you say the same if it was the other way around and my brother was kissing, phoning and texting other women?

He left the family home because my SIL stayed away for 3 nights and then she asked my brother to do the same so she could have some space. Seems she's calling all the shots, and he's going along with what she wants because he doesn't want to upset the kids.
Its all quite amicable at the moment, he's back there tonight. They'll have to live together until things are sorted.
I wrote that other post when they were talking about getting back together, but she doesn't want to try Relate or couselling.
It seems he's going to have to deal with it and try and move on.
Thanks again for your replies x

make_me_wise

My advice would be for you to stay completely neutral. Give all the support you can to your brother and his kids. You would also be very wise to be there for your sil. Im not saying that you have to emotionally support her about what she is doing, not many people would in your shoes. However if she has a sounding board as a link to your brother and their kids you could smooth things out and keep this whole mess civil.

Your brother needs to seek legal advice as soon as possible. Considering the kids ages I dont see why he couldn't, if he wished, apply for custody.

How are the children coping in all this? I hope they are ok