provident agents [TEXT DELETED BY FORUM TEAM]

jacko12

empowerthepeople wrote: »

Theoretically that will work...however you know as well as I do that any agent who attempts to impliment such a tactic would soon succumb to the threats and intimidation that is already happening, because it would not take long before the plot would be rumbled.
Provident is aware that the majority of agents are in no financial position to simply terminate their contract and consequently are depending on the vast majority to complain very strongly with each other but continue taking care of business....and those that do leave...so what....there is always another to take the place.
Very unfortunate scenario but rest asured the Providents' legal team have already thrashed out the pros and cons long before implmenting this latest scheme.

i think that too they will have thought this through down to the last letter!! they probabley have banked on us doing something like this too(as in complaining on this website)
so they will offer us some kind of watered down scheme which will not be much more different but they will say they are making an effort to help us .We cannot let anything stand in our way to stop this scheme in its tracks ....hit them were it hurts no sales from wk 20 ,no canvas crap, no transfers, just make as much hassle as we can and make things more and more difficult wk by wk by wk. and how about this any one who costs you 15.00 DONT CALL THERE AGAIN LET THE COMPANY TAKE THEM TO COURT IT WILL COST THEM MORE THAN 15.00 !!!:T

josili

An_Area_Manager wrote: »

I am an area manager and a long time member of this site but have registered a new username to protect my anonymity.

OK guys and gals I will tell you how to beat the system. No one need lose their agency nor quit either. This will all be perfectly legal and within the terms of your agency agreement. You need never have another commission adjustment under this new scheme.

I guess you all know at least one other agent in your office? Pair up with another agent, your agent's agreement specifically states that any agent can act as a deputy for another agent. Only the main agent collecting their own agency is liable for the commission adjustments, if the agency is not paid in against the main agents unique number then all the hits and wins are disregarded. So all you do is deputise for each other on paper.

How to work it.

2 agents lets call them John agency ABC and Mary agency XYZ

• John
• Collects £2000
• Sells £1000
• Commission £200
• Banks £800

• Mary
• Collects £1000
• Sells £500
• Commission £100
• Banks £400

How to pay it in to avoid deductions

• John pays in Mary's agency XYZ but collections only
• Collects XYZ £1000
• Receives cash allocation from Mary XYZ £1000
• Sales £1000
• Commission £200
• Banks £800

• Mary pays in John's agency ABC collections only
• Collects ABC £2000
• Sends cash allocation to John ABC £1000
• Sells £500
• Commission £100
• Banks £400

As you can see both agents still balance all you need to do is swap clips to pay in and do a cash allocation for the difference between what you have both collected. On your receipt pad is a section to complete for cash allocations, fill it in with sending and receiving agents details and receiving agent signs it, each keeps a copy. On your balancing sheet if you are the receiving agent it goes on the left side as cash received and as sending agent it goes on the right side as cash and cheque allocations.

You will then generate commission without deductions and receive each others commission statement. Just swap them doing a receipt for each other for the commission you paid each other for deputy services to keep the tax man happy.

Don't concentrate on the high end stage movements so all the big deductions go through then when you have big potential wins you pay your own book in again. Bank to zero every week, the company pays a flat charge on every float cheque cashed as well as a percentage of the value of the cheque. Customer wants mid week loan? Sorry someone will need to bring me a float.

How long do you think the scheme will last when they only pay out net wins but don't recoup net losses??

We AM's and DM's will lose bonus when the cash loss goes through the roof but so what. We can bear it for a few months until they pull or drastically rethink this scheme.

You should not have deductions for deceased customers or any going to free money advice such as CAB CCCS National debtline or Christians Against Poverty etc. Yes you may incur them initially but once we get the documentation in then I for one will reimburse any deductions to my agents for these customers and then write them off to head office.

As for new doors not paying they are going to change it so one miss is stage 1, 2 misses stage 2 and so on, so not going straight to stage 12 and £15 deduction. Transfers will get a 4 week suspension or until first payment similar to what we had under IQ.

They need to remove the deductions for fee charger accounts and ones not issued by the agent. UTR accounts need to be reported straight away and confirmed by your DM so they can be written off before you get deductions, again we suffer the 100% cash loss hit to write it off early.

Don't give up, stick with it just make the scheme unworkable for head office and they will have to change it.

(then what happens when Provident give you 7days notice to terminate your aggreement)

Beeincontrol

I have just caught up with this thread Phew! It's nice to know I'm not alone. We are self employed we work our agency to our own hours, so why do we have demands to come in for meetings when they tell us and then the dm tell us how to do our jobs. I do think this is something that has come up here before. At the end of the day, we are out all hours, sometimes very inconvenient hours so we can get our figures in, while the Dm's are sitting watching Eastenders or Corrie with a glass of wine, and guaranteed a wage at the end of the day, with no deductions if anything a big bonus. I'm in no way running them down for this, that is their job thats what their employment status is, that's what the orders from above are.
And God!!!!( Crook ) if your reading this, just remember for you to climb to the top of a ladder you must first have the bottom rung, and if the rungs should fall off you have one hell of a fall in front of you.
Make your mind up employed or self employed.

And stop crapping on the Flour or YOU! will have no bread.
Give us our money back.:mad:

Marvin-the-Martian_2

beincontroll, with all your credit history how come you are still an agent, and giving advice,
you go to a meeting to be informed
the dms do not tell, they guide you
if its inconvenient to you who works part time and have no other job why do you do it,
you can always say bye bye

Confusedmind

I have been reading this thread with somewhat of a confused head. Apparently you are self employed agents doing the same work weekly ? Yet a few comments state that you have to attend meetings and offices when instructed ? Has the status of this position with the inland revenue ever been challenged ? Surely the company is saving a he'll of a lot of money by not having to pay employers national insurance and on this basis seems rather stupid strange that current govt policies allow such avoidance ?

Does anyone know if this has ever been challenged or agreed by revenue !

Marvin-the-Martian_2

no more than a consultant can work for the same company and bill them for the work done, if part of that consulancy is to attend company seminars and to keep ahead of all policies and legislation governing the work provided.

jenny5969

Confusedmind wrote: »

I have been reading this thread with somewhat of a confused head. Apparently you are self employed agents doing the same work weekly ? Yet a few comments state that you have to attend meetings and offices when instructed ? Has the status of this position with the inland revenue ever been challenged ? Surely the company is saving a he'll of a lot of money by not having to pay employers national insurance and on this basis seems rather stupid strange that current govt policies allow such avoidance ?

Does anyone know if this has ever been challenged or agreed by revenue !

Hi there I dont think it has ever been challanged,125 yrs in business a company as huge as what they are and we are all little nobodies really.The company bring each of us agents in for individual interviews at sheduled times which they dictate,their system ensures we are very much alone and not able to discuss with one and other the goings on within the company,I do believe we all feel more like employees,they tell us where/when to work what we can and can not do?!? confused.com:( We have no holidays,holiday pay,sick days etc.... unless we employee cover. The company saves Huge amounts here.... we pay our own tax,nat ins and use our own vehicle's etc to conduct our business

crookbyname_?

jenny5969 wrote: »

Hi there I dont think it has ever been challanged,125 yrs in business a company as huge as what they are and we are all little nobodies really.The company bring each of us agents in for individual interviews at sheduled times which they dictate,their system ensures we are very much alone and not able to discuss with one and other the goings on within the company,I do believe we all feel more like employees,they tell us where/when to work what we can and can not do?!? confused.com:( We have no holidays,holiday pay,sick days etc.... unless we employee cover. The company saves Huge amounts here.... we pay our own tax,nat ins and use our own vehicle's etc to conduct our business

Is this legalised tax avoidance then as it does appear to be somewhat underhand. Bit like the new structure, the only winners mr crook and his pals

bret

scoobyagent wrote: »

;)bret have you noticed if it is to do with provi targets everything is ok, even rolling loans after 6 weeks???????????????????

oh yes!!!!!!!

bret

An_Area_Manager wrote: »

I am an area manager and a long time member of this site but have registered a new username to protect my anonymity.

OK guys and gals I will tell you how to beat the system. No one need lose their agency nor quit either. This will all be perfectly legal and within the terms of your agency agreement. You need never have another commission adjustment under this new scheme.

I guess you all know at least one other agent in your office? Pair up with another agent, your agent's agreement specifically states that any agent can act as a deputy for another agent. Only the main agent collecting their own agency is liable for the commission adjustments, if the agency is not paid in against the main agents unique number then all the hits and wins are disregarded. So all you do is deputise for each other on paper.

How to work it.

2 agents lets call them John agency ABC and Mary agency XYZ

• John
• Collects £2000
• Sells £1000
• Commission £200
• Banks £800

• Mary
• Collects £1000
• Sells £500
• Commission £100
• Banks £400

How to pay it in to avoid deductions

• John pays in Mary's agency XYZ but collections only
• Collects XYZ £1000
• Receives cash allocation from Mary XYZ £1000
• Sales £1000
• Commission £200
• Banks £800

• Mary pays in John's agency ABC collections only
• Collects ABC £2000
• Sends cash allocation to John ABC £1000
• Sells £500
• Commission £100
• Banks £400

As you can see both agents still balance all you need to do is swap clips to pay in and do a cash allocation for the difference between what you have both collected. On your receipt pad is a section to complete for cash allocations, fill it in with sending and receiving agents details and receiving agent signs it, each keeps a copy. On your balancing sheet if you are the receiving agent it goes on the left side as cash received and as sending agent it goes on the right side as cash and cheque allocations.

You will then generate commission without deductions and receive each others commission statement. Just swap them doing a receipt for each other for the commission you paid each other for deputy services to keep the tax man happy.

Don't concentrate on the high end stage movements so all the big deductions go through then when you have big potential wins you pay your own book in again. Bank to zero every week, the company pays a flat charge on every float cheque cashed as well as a percentage of the value of the cheque. Customer wants mid week loan? Sorry someone will need to bring me a float.

How long do you think the scheme will last when they only pay out net wins but don't recoup net losses??

We AM's and DM's will lose bonus when the cash loss goes through the roof but so what. We can bear it for a few months until they pull or drastically rethink this scheme.

You should not have deductions for deceased customers or any going to free money advice such as CAB CCCS National debtline or Christians Against Poverty etc. Yes you may incur them initially but once we get the documentation in then I for one will reimburse any deductions to my agents for these customers and then write them off to head office.

As for new doors not paying they are going to change it so one miss is stage 1, 2 misses stage 2 and so on, so not going straight to stage 12 and £15 deduction. Transfers will get a 4 week suspension or until first payment similar to what we had under IQ.

They need to remove the deductions for fee charger accounts and ones not issued by the agent. UTR accounts need to be reported straight away and confirmed by your DM so they can be written off before you get deductions, again we suffer the 100% cash loss hit to write it off early.

Don't give up, stick with it just make the scheme unworkable for head office and they will have to change it.

thanks mate but we shouldn't have to mess about like that and i dont have anybody to do that with.