provident agents [TEXT DELETED BY FORUM TEAM]

jenny5969

Angry_Norfolk wrote: »

Has the website agentssayno.co.uk been removed. I hope big brother hasnt intervened. I cant get on now !!!!!!!!!!!

It Look's that way I cnt get on either :mad:

An_Area_Manager

I am an area manager and a long time member of this site but have registered a new username to protect my anonymity.

OK guys and gals I will tell you how to beat the system. No one need lose their agency nor quit either. This will all be perfectly legal and within the terms of your agency agreement. You need never have another commission adjustment under this new scheme.

I guess you all know at least one other agent in your office? Pair up with another agent, your agent's agreement specifically states that any agent can act as a deputy for another agent. Only the main agent collecting their own agency is liable for the commission adjustments, if the agency is not paid in against the main agents unique number then all the hits and wins are disregarded. So all you do is deputise for each other on paper.

How to work it.

2 agents lets call them John agency ABC and Mary agency XYZ

• John
• Collects £2000
• Sells £1000
• Commission £200
• Banks £800

• Mary
• Collects £1000
• Sells £500
• Commission £100
• Banks £400

How to pay it in to avoid deductions

• John pays in Mary's agency XYZ but collections only
• Collects XYZ £1000
• Receives cash allocation from Mary XYZ £1000
• Sales £1000
• Commission £200
• Banks £800

• Mary pays in John's agency ABC collections only
• Collects ABC £2000
• Sends cash allocation to John ABC £1000
• Sells £500
• Commission £100
• Banks £400

As you can see both agents still balance all you need to do is swap clips to pay in and do a cash allocation for the difference between what you have both collected. On your receipt pad is a section to complete for cash allocations, fill it in with sending and receiving agents details and receiving agent signs it, each keeps a copy. On your balancing sheet if you are the receiving agent it goes on the left side as cash received and as sending agent it goes on the right side as cash and cheque allocations.

You will then generate commission without deductions and receive each others commission statement. Just swap them doing a receipt for each other for the commission you paid each other for deputy services to keep the tax man happy.

Don't concentrate on the high end stage movements so all the big deductions go through then when you have big potential wins you pay your own book in again. Bank to zero every week, the company pays a flat charge on every float cheque cashed as well as a percentage of the value of the cheque. Customer wants mid week loan? Sorry someone will need to bring me a float.

How long do you think the scheme will last when they only pay out net wins but don't recoup net losses??

We AM's and DM's will lose bonus when the cash loss goes through the roof but so what. We can bear it for a few months until they pull or drastically rethink this scheme.

You should not have deductions for deceased customers or any going to free money advice such as CAB CCCS National debtline or Christians Against Poverty etc. Yes you may incur them initially but once we get the documentation in then I for one will reimburse any deductions to my agents for these customers and then write them off to head office.

As for new doors not paying they are going to change it so one miss is stage 1, 2 misses stage 2 and so on, so not going straight to stage 12 and £15 deduction. Transfers will get a 4 week suspension or until first payment similar to what we had under IQ.

They need to remove the deductions for fee charger accounts and ones not issued by the agent. UTR accounts need to be reported straight away and confirmed by your DM so they can be written off before you get deductions, again we suffer the 100% cash loss hit to write it off early.

Don't give up, stick with it just make the scheme unworkable for head office and they will have to change it.

Nephthys50

Sammyantha wrote: »

I don't know how anyone can sleep at night working for this kind of company. They prey on the weak. That they are penalising or ripping off their workers does not surprise me in the least.

They delude themselves it's a normal job, it's called Denial.

Denial is a defense mechanism postulated by Sigmund Freud, in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence. [1] The subject may use:

• simple denial - deny the reality of the unpleasant fact altogether
• minimisation - admit the fact but deny its seriousness (a combination of denial and rationalization)
• projection - admit both the fact and seriousness but deny responsibility.

I have no sympathy with them at all.

(You get called 'ignorant' when you point it out - lol.)

teamspirit

An area manager - post 638....if carlsberg made Area managers eh? I cant see ours letting us get away with that, but maybe its worth a try

mixedupagent

jenny5969 wrote: »

It Look's that way I cnt get on either :mad:

The site is still here, i am reading all the comments every hour.

An_Area_Manager

teamspirit wrote: »

I cant see ours letting us get away with that, but maybe its worth a try

How can they stop you when it is written into the agents agreement?

Every agent can deputise any agency and pay it in against their unique number. Have you never collected a vacant agency for your office? Have you never been told you have to provide 52 weeks cover for your agency but don't have to collect yourself and can use any deputy you choose?

You are self employed remember. To use the copmpanies favorite analogy if you ran a shop you wouldn't close it when you went on holiday you get someone in to run it for you. You are free run your agency as you see fit. Play them at their own game use the terms of your agreement to your advantage.

empowerthepeople

An_Area_Manager wrote: »

I am an area manager and a long time member of this site but have registered a new username to protect my anonymity.

OK guys and gals I will tell you how to beat the system. No one need lose their agency nor quit either. This will all be perfectly legal and within the terms of your agency agreement. You need never have another commission adjustment under this new scheme.

I guess you all know at least one other agent in your office? Pair up with another agent, your agent's agreement specifically states that any agent can act as a deputy for another agent. Only the main agent collecting their own agency is liable for the commission adjustments, if the agency is not paid in against the main agents unique number then all the hits and wins are disregarded. So all you do is deputise for each other on paper.

How to work it.

2 agents lets call them John agency ABC and Mary agency XYZ

• John
• Collects £2000
• Sells £1000
• Commission £200
• Banks £800

• Mary
• Collects £1000
• Sells £500
• Commission £100
• Banks £400

How to pay it in to avoid deductions

• John pays in Mary's agency XYZ but collections only
• Collects XYZ £1000
• Receives cash allocation from Mary XYZ £1000
• Sales £1000
• Commission £200
• Banks £800

• Mary pays in John's agency ABC collections only
• Collects ABC £2000
• Sends cash allocation to John ABC £1000
• Sells £500
• Commission £100
• Banks £400

As you can see both agents still balance all you need to do is swap clips to pay in and do a cash allocation for the difference between what you have both collected. On your receipt pad is a section to complete for cash allocations, fill it in with sending and receiving agents details and receiving agent signs it, each keeps a copy. On your balancing sheet if you are the receiving agent it goes on the left side as cash received and as sending agent it goes on the right side as cash and cheque allocations.

You will then generate commission without deductions and receive each others commission statement. Just swap them doing a receipt for each other for the commission you paid each other for deputy services to keep the tax man happy.

Don't concentrate on the high end stage movements so all the big deductions go through then when you have big potential wins you pay your own book in again. Bank to zero every week, the company pays a flat charge on every float cheque cashed as well as a percentage of the value of the cheque. Customer wants mid week loan? Sorry someone will need to bring me a float.

How long do you think the scheme will last when they only pay out net wins but don't recoup net losses??

We AM's and DM's will lose bonus when the cash loss goes through the roof but so what. We can bear it for a few months until they pull or drastically rethink this scheme.

You should not have deductions for deceased customers or any going to free money advice such as CAB CCCS National debtline or Christians Against Poverty etc. Yes you may incur them initially but once we get the documentation in then I for one will reimburse any deductions to my agents for these customers and then write them off to head office.

As for new doors not paying they are going to change it so one miss is stage 1, 2 misses stage 2 and so on, so not going straight to stage 12 and £15 deduction. Transfers will get a 4 week suspension or until first payment similar to what we had under IQ.

They need to remove the deductions for fee charger accounts and ones not issued by the agent. UTR accounts need to be reported straight away and confirmed by your DM so they can be written off before you get deductions, again we suffer the 100% cash loss hit to write it off early.

Don't give up, stick with it just make the scheme unworkable for head office and they will have to change it.

Theoretically that will work...however you know as well as I do that any agent who attempts to impliment such a tactic would soon succumb to the threats and intimidation that is already happening, because it would not take long before the plot would be rumbled.
Provident is aware that the majority of agents are in no financial position to simply terminate their contract and consequently are depending on the vast majority to complain very strongly with each other but continue taking care of business....and those that do leave...so what....there is always another to take the place.
Very unfortunate scenario but rest asured the Providents' legal team have already thrashed out the pros and cons long before implmenting this latest scheme.

Winston55_2

I have found this thread by searching google. I dont know what the recent spat has been about, but I am more concerned about the agents being ripped off. A member of my family is an agent, and I used to be a DM. I left a couple of years ago because of stress. We have read the article in the Mirror, and I intend to contact them to expose the bad lending policies of Provident. Frankly, they lend to suit themselves: if its the end of the month and the managers need their bonus, the lending criteria goes out of the window; if its the end of the quarter and the ROM wants their bonus the same happens. Also: if the bad debt charge is getting too much, agents are encouraged to "drip feed" accounts or reapportion money to other accounts in the same household. Unfortunately, the new policy will just encourage this bad practice, and if the agents are found doing it, they will suffer, not the managers, as it will be difficult to prove. It is very hard for agents on the doorstep, being confronted by the country's economic problems at the coal face. Mr Crook (aptly named) isnt suffering, and neither are the area, regional or divisonal managers. I find it offensive that these people are driving round in their company cars, eating their free meals and pocketing large bonuses at the expense of hard working agents and the poorer members of the British public. They are nothing but legalised loan sharks. Believe me: the member of my family would walk tomorrow if there was another job! End of rant...........

crookbyname_?

Winston55 maybe you as an ex insider can also mention the control that provident have over the SELF EMPLOYED agents and maybe the will investigate the reality of a job that is not what people think

jacko12

wk 20 no sales!!!!!!! i am with that one and wk 21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,etc