provident agents [TEXT DELETED BY FORUM TEAM]

shaftedbyprovi

crooky wrote: »

There used to be some interesting things on here. Now its just silly with people putting everyone in the same box and name calling managers who are apparently all the same and cant think or speak for themselves. Agents are not the be all and end all of Provident, as you have found out they can be replaced fairly easily. Shouting and stamping feet doesnt change anything and despite all the threats to take legal action etc what has actually been done?

You as a company man will know the damage an agent leaving does. you lose collections you lose sales and your bad debt charge goes through the roof. More importantly you lose the relationship and knowledge of the customer the agent has built up over a long period of years. The company are sugar coating their results and to the world everything is ok but we know differently. Just wait until you can no longer manipulate and massage the figures then the pressure will really be on. already your managers are taking a hard line with reduced payers and again although this may be a temporary thing on the customers part (remember the country is in recession) the damage has been done. You are not the only credit company out there and whilst you may be the biggest you are on a downward slide although you lot in your ivory towers would not aknowledge.

crooky

There we go again with the assumptions. I havnt lost any expertise, im not male and im not a company man. You make these assumptions that im working for Provident, I dont. Im far from the ivory towers but I do know that a lot of what you say about the mangers is complete rubbish. You jump on them calling them all these names and stating they are all the same and dont give a toss about the agents. How can you put them all in the same box, do you really think they are in agreement with this whole system, what do you think they can actually do to change it? You talk about Provident like they are evil, you are all quite happy to take the promotions and the extra money you get from those, you dont complain about those. Who do you think it is that fights for the money to run these local promotions????

If you are really going to make a difference to the way things are then you need to come off your soap boxes and do something constructive. Act like adults instead of children taking a strop and name calling when you dont get your own way. At the end of the day youre self employed, you earn what you work for. You take the good with the bad and you work the system, its possible if youre clever enough so sit and work it out. Provident are throwing money at you, its there for the taking if you are willing to work.

twofingersup

crooky wrote: »

There used to be some interesting things on here. Now its just silly with people putting everyone in the same box and name calling managers who are apparently all the same and cant think or speak for themselves. Agents are not the be all and end all of Provident, as you have found out they can be replaced fairly easily. Shouting and stamping feet doesnt change anything and despite all the threats to take legal action etc what has actually been done?

Isnt it interesting to read Crooky's posting.....I wonder how many more managers are scanning these postings each day????
If you arent worried and think that agents are easily replaced etc etc etc why are you wasting so much time on here when you dont need to ???? Its very obvious that what is being said on here is hitting a very raw nerve . Six months from now will give the real proof of how it all ends lets see if provident will still need you as a manager by then ?????

twofingersup

crooky wrote: »

There we go again with the assumptions. I havnt lost any expertise, im not male and im not a company man. You make these assumptions that im working for Provident, I dont. Im far from the ivory towers but I do know that a lot of what you say about the mangers is complete rubbish. You jump on them calling them all these names and stating they are all the same and dont give a toss about the agents. How can you put them all in the same box, do you really think they are in agreement with this whole system, what do you think they can actually do to change it? You talk about Provident like they are evil, you are all quite happy to take the promotions and the extra money you get from those, you dont complain about those. Who do you think it is that fights for the money to run these local promotions????

If you are really going to make a difference to the way things are then you need to come off your soap boxes and do something constructive. Act like adults instead of children taking a strop and name calling when you dont get your own way. At the end of the day youre self employed, you earn what you work for. You take the good with the bad and you work the system, its possible if youre clever enough so sit and work it out. Provident are throwing money at you, its there for the taking if you are willing to work.

spoken like a true provident manager......they would be proud of you if they read this ....they would see that programming their little clones really does work

crooky

twofingersup can you read? Im not a manger and I dont even work for Provident. No I dont need to spend all day on here and I dont but I spend as much time as I like on here because I can if I choose to. Why do you? I get notifications when a post has been made on here, I really dont sit on here refreshing waiting for another post with another poster making assumptions about me. My forum name is by pure coincidence similar to Peter Crook but it is in fact relevant to a place I lived at and nothing more. You read a lot more into it and seem to dismiss the facts I am repeating time and time again. Makes no difference to me to be honest, I know the truth.

So what are your predictions for 6 months from now? Id be interested to read those.

crooky

twofingersup wrote: »

spoken like a true provident manager......they would be proud of you if they read this ....they would see that programming their little clones really does work

Dear me you really are up yourself arent you. I dont know how much more simple I can make it for you. I do not work for Provident. There you go again though with your pathetic comments regarding managers all being the same. Perhaps if you put some of that energy into working on your agency you would be able to make the system work for you. Or perhaps you dont have the capacity to do that. Ah well maybe one day you will leave too and they can replace you with someone who knows how to make it pay.

twofingersup

sorry to disappoint you but if you had read my postings you would see that I dont work for provident now...I got out when they started fining £5 for a paperwork error but I have many friends who are still agents and I see how this affects them . If agents are self-employed then what they do with their agency is up to them but they arent really self-employed they are "workers" and I think that a few cases in the legal system at the moment will eventually prove that.Thank you for your comments it really has shown the mind of the Provi clones .

crooky

Im not disappointed at all, why would I be? They only fined people who actually made mistakes, its quite easy not to. The SE debate is not for Provident or agents to decide upon, its for the HMRC to make that decision. Its something I looked into years ago but agents are better off being self employed. Its a shame some dont realise that and stand a chance of changing it because then the crap will really hit the fan and Provident will be able to do what they want and as an employee you will have to do it. As it stands now being SE you have more choice, more earning potential, more possible holidays, the list goes on. By saying 'you' I dont mean you personally I mean agents in general. Thats because I trust what you say when you tell me youre not an agent, shame thats not returned and you still insist on calling me a manager. Im not a Provi clone and you put it, ive just got my own opinions and some brain cells.

Joshua_W

crooky wrote: »

There used to be some interesting things on here. Now its just silly with people putting everyone in the same box and name calling managers who are apparently all the same and cant think or speak for themselves. Agents are not the be all and end all of Provident, as you have found out they can be replaced fairly easily. Shouting and stamping feet doesnt change anything and despite all the threats to take legal action etc what has actually been done?

crooky, you used to be an Agent, but resigned ( as did I ).

I assume you were not happy doing the Agents job and found something better ( as did I )

You have family and friends who are still Agents ( as do I ).

As we are both ex-Agents who have found pastures new, do you think it's fair that Provident deduct Agents commission for:

Customers going into arrears when that Agent has never made an issue to the customer.

Customers who move and don't provide a forwarding address.

Customers who seek debt advice.

Customers who lose their jobs through the economic climate and their employer cuts the workforce.

Customers who go bankrupt.

Customers who fall ill and only get statutory sick pay and can't afford full repayments.

Customers transferred onto an Agents book that incur a deduction in commission.

There are other reasons of why Agents can be deducted £5 £10 £15 from their commission.. through no real fault of their own.

The system is unfair.

Agents lose anyway as their commission is reduced from 9.5% to 6% or so, why are they penalised further ?

As we both have family and friends who are Agents we want them to be treated fairly don't we ?

Provident have created a commission deduction system that penalises the Agent whilst the customer loses nothing.

Agents work very hard, often 7 days a week.. as you no doubt know... they have to provide 52 week cover on their books.. no deputy means no holidays.

If Agents were to be employed rather than self employed I'm sure Provident would have taken that route long ago... employed status for Agents would cost them a fortune.

Predictions you asked about in 6 months time to a poster earlier... I predict a closing of thousands of Agencies of less than 100 customers, DM redundancies, Office closures, AM redundancies, ROM redundancies, DOM redundancies, Service Centres to lose clerks.

Customer numbers are falling, sales against last year are falling ( of course they are, there was a promotion ) the future looks bleak.... unless they motivate and reward the Agency force.

crooky

Finally someone who can read and look past themselves and their own ideas and opinions. I shall try and answer each question as bext I can.

Joshua_W wrote: »

crooky, you used to be an Agent, but resigned ( as did I ).

I assume you were not happy doing the Agents job and found something better ( as did I )

Yes I was an agent and was very happy doing the job, I had some great customers and some pretty useless ones but I took the good with the bad. I left because of circumstances.

You have family and friends who are still Agents ( as do I ).

Also correct.

As we are both ex-Agents who have found pastures new, do you think it's fair that Provident deduct Agents commission for:

Customers going into arrears when that Agent has never made an issue to the customer.

Im assuming you mean the likes of canvas customers and Fresh Starts. If so then the agents do not have to take these customers and have every right to refuse to accept them onto their books.

Customers who move and don't provide a forwarding address.

Local knowledge is a wonderful thing and believe me from experience I know its possible to find UTRs without too much work. There is always another customer who will gladly tell you where they have moved to.

Customers who seek debt advice.

As an agent it was my job to try to come to an agreement with the customer and most of the time this was possible with agreed rates for a period of time.

Customers who lose their jobs through the economic climate and their employer cuts the workforce.

See above.

Customers who go bankrupt.

See above.

Customers who fall ill and only get statutory sick pay and can't afford full repayments.

See above.

Customers transferred onto an Agents book that incur a deduction in commission.

Again you have a right to refuse these customers.

There are other reasons of why Agents can be deducted £5 £10 £15 from their commission.. through no real fault of their own.

This is correct but with the current system these agents are paid more than the £15 to put the customers on and by using some brain cells they can work the system and make it pay. Some agents are shouting about these deductions but are happily taking the bonuses paid for getting the customers on. If they actually sit and work it out they will realise that the reality is they are still making money and the incentives outweigh the deductions. You cant have your cake and eat it. Provident isnt what it used to be, it isnt pin money for a few hours work whilst the kids are at school. They want agents to be committed and to be prepared to put more hours in to grow agencies. Its a serious job now, not just a housewifes pocket money as it was years ago.

The system is unfair.

See above. Its not so unfair when you look at the whole picture. What they should have done was brought in the better commission pay structure at the same time as the deductions system. Instead they improved the way commission was earned sooner which made the deductions seem like more of a hit to the agents pay. In reality agents have had it easy for a long time plodding along collecting and selling and making a nice commission if they put the work in to keep their customers in quality.

Agents lose anyway as their commission is reduced from 9.5% to 6% or so, why are they penalised further ?

Its not quite as simple as that though is it? Agents are paid a certain amount on refi and that is better than it was. See its the good with the bad.

As we both have family and friends who are Agents we want them to be treated fairly don't we ?

Correct. They do actually think they are being treated fairly because they have sat back and thought about it and made the system work for them. They dont take new customers on and they are careful what they issue to current customers. They are no worse off now then before the deductions started infact they are better off with the positive changes to the commission structure.

Provident have created a commission deduction system that penalises the Agent whilst the customer loses nothing.

It also rewards the agents for doing their job which is controlling their agency.

Agents work very hard, often 7 days a week.. as you no doubt know... they have to provide 52 week cover on their books.. no deputy means no holidays.

This has always been the case. Agents are self employed and responsible for their own agency cover. In a office with good relations and communication agents collect for each other. Finding a deputy is not something I ever had a problem with. The only agents that struggled to find cover were those who were too greedy to hand over all the pay minus tax or those who didnt look after their agency and had backcalls every week because they simply didnt work with their customers. Deputy agents dont want to waste time chasing customers when they have their own book to collect at the same time. Those agents working 7 days a week will have a damn good book and will be making more money through this new system if they are really putting those hours in. I only know of one agent who works 5 days a week and believe me he has never made so much as hes making now. He runs a tight ship and always has. Hes looked after his agency because thats his job.

If Agents were to be employed rather than self employed I'm sure Provident would have taken that route long ago... employed status for Agents would cost them a fortune.

It would also cost the agents. It would be a set wage and no more promotions where the earning potential is hundreds and even thousands. No more refi commission, set number of holidays, no offsetting the car/miles on the tax return etc. Trust me being SE is best for the agents.

Predictions you asked about in 6 months time to a poster earlier... I predict a closing of thousands of Agencies of less than 100 customers, DM redundancies, Office closures, AM redundancies, ROM redundancies, DOM redundancies, Service Centres to lose clerks.

I also believe the smaller agencies will be closed but only if those agents are not willing to grow the book. Like I said above, Provident have changed, its not a housewifes pin money job anymore. They want people who are serious about their agency and prepared to work to grow it and those agents are rewarded by a good pay structure and fantastic promotions. The Christmas period is coming and trust me the incentives are their for the agents and not the managers. The managers are getting less bonuses because the money is going to the agents, the people who are out there on the street doing the job. It was alsoways the case the managers got the bigger incentives when the agents did the work but thats changing.

Some staff deserve to be made redundant, some are useless but not all. I dont think the employed staff will be cut back greatly, they are putting more onto the managers and expecting them to do what I class as the agents jobs. Canvassing, telesales etc. Time will tell though but in reality none of us know whats going on in head office. Not even the local managers know this despite some people being convinced all managers are in it together and all are out to get the agents and make their life hell.

Customer numbers are falling, sales against last year are falling ( of course they are, there was a promotion ) the future looks bleak.... unless they motivate and reward the Agency force.

Customer numbers are falling because agents are reluctant to put new doors on and to reissue to non quality customers. Sales are lower because of the same but in actual fact the quality is better so the business isnt failing in the slightest. Like I said above there are more incentives for agents to come but some agents are not prepared toput the work in. They want it to be like it always was, You issue, you collect, you rake it in. Its not that simple anymore, You have to grow your agency. If youre not prepared to do that then youre in the wrong job now.

I hope ive managed to cover everything there. Its been nice to have a civil conversation without name calling and putting everyone in the same box. Nothing is going to change overnight. gents just need to ask themselves what they want from their job now. If they are willing to work and grow their agency then it can me made to work and pay despite the deductions. If you want to do things the old way which is where you went out and had cuppas and chats with customers, collect your money, issue loans and then collect your pin money next week then its time to move on because you will never make the new ways work for you. Hand on heart I dont like the way its changed and I wouldnt like to do the job now because I did enjoy the good old days, im not talking 20 years ago, im talking even just 7 years ago when its was much more relaxed and it was seen as a nice little job for a mother to do whilst the kids were at school. I used to take my little one with me sometimes. The customer loved it because thats the relationship we had. I do miss it but im under no illusions its the same now. Theres too much pressure on growing the agency and making sales for my liking these days and thats not what I like so I couldnt do the job now. Thats my choice.