Do I have to accept 'alternative position'?

Sloganjerry

I was told we were entering a 90 day consultation period back in Jan when we started back after Xmas. I had one meeting where I was told about reasons my job was being made redundant and was encouraged to apply for a particular ring fenced post. I was asked if I would be interested in this as a ‘suitable alternative to redundancy’ and I said I was happy to look at this post as a possibility, but did want to ask more questions about the role and pay before I decided. I was told it was too early to discuss any of this but I could ask these questions during the interview later in the process. I have since heard that this new post is the same post I have now but with a different job title, more duties, unsociable hours, less money and less status. The consultation period ended (by email) a while ago and some people were interviewed but I wasn’t?! I have since received an email saying that as no-one has contested my 'alternative' post it will be offered to me. When I asked about the pay I was told that this was something I could negotiate when I start the new position, that my present wage would be protected for 6 months but that it was a cost cutting exercise at the end of the day so will reduce in the future.:eek: It has now gone very quiet at work and I am very confused as I don’t know what to do? It seems that my employer just wants me to fall into place and take up this new role as if nothing has changed, but obviously the wage could drop significantly in the future and I also have an issue with the hours and loss of status as this will surely affect any jobs I go for then in the future (as new employers tend to look at your present employment). I haven’t put anything in writing about wanting this job, applying for it or accepting it? Any advice would be much appreciated.

System

Sloganjerry wrote: »

I have since heard that this new post is the same post I have now but with a different job title, more duties, unsociable hours, less money and less status.

So it is a different job

getmore4less

An alterantive position has to be suitable.

If you search you will find lots of web pages that will help with the sort of things that make analternative unsuitable

to get you started,

this booklet has some information and is worth a read

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=747

also

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/RedundancyAndLeavingYourJob/Redundancy/DG_10029844

fluffy70

if you were entering 90 day consultation at the beginning of January it won't end until the end of march/ beginning of April??? how can they have informed you that consultation is over???
also - if no one else has contested the position then you are being redeployed into that role..... it can be deemed as suitable as you have the main core skills from your current ro;e and can train to gain the additionals. As it is a redeployment, you have 2 years salary protection.... NOT 6 months. Also, there has to be a legal cooling off period after the end of consultation, and you still need to apply for the redeployment and it has to be advertised internally.
you need to urgently talk to your HR team or to ACAS or your union rep at work by the sounds of it

getmore4less

fluffy70 wrote: »

if you were entering 90 day consultation at the beginning of January it won't end until the end of march/ beginning of April??? how can they have informed you that consultation is over???
also - if no one else has contested the position then you are being redeployed into that role..... it can be deemed as suitable as you have the main core skills from your current ro;e and can train to gain the additionals. As it is a redeployment, you have 2 years salary protection.... NOT 6 months. Also, there has to be a legal cooling off period after the end of consultation, and you still need to apply for the redeployment and it has to be advertised internally.
you need to urgently talk to your HR team or to ACAS or your union rep at work by the sounds of it

Where do you get all this from, looks like you are using your place of work as reference but AFAIK none of the above is in standard employment legislation.

Statutory 90 days consultation does not have to last 90 days it can be over much sooner there are just rules about when people can be terminated.

Where is this 2 years salary protection come from?

What is this legal cooling off period?

You can't refuse to be redeployed if the job is not suitable.

Any training required you could ask for a trial period extended if needed and still get redundancy if this does not work out.

Sloganjerry

Finally I've had a meeting to clarify some of the details of the new role I’m being redeployed into. Basically it is approx £3,000 less pay than role I'm in now (my present pay will be protected for 6 months) and includes additional 'on call' duties (which I have raised concerns about as I am a primary carer), new skills and responsibilities (which they've offered me training for but still sound like a heavy workload and tasks I have no interest in doing) and involves a demotion for me as I manage a small team at present and this will be taken away from me as the role isn’t a management role. I'm also concerned as there doesn't seem to be anywhere to go with this role and I’ve been with the company 11 years working my way up and I feel like I’m moving backwards 5 or 6 years.

I’m really confused as to what to do? I think I’ve more or less decided that I don’t really want the new role and would like to be made redundant, but I’m concerned that I might not get any redundancy pay as my employer seems to be insinuating that this is not an option and I have no choice but to accept the redeployment as it is a ‘suitable’ alternative. Could anyone advise as to whether they think I have a case to argue that this is not a suitable alternative? Or am I better to take the redeployment and search for a new job over the next 6 moths rather than make myself unemployed with no money???

Thanks so much for any advice.

EconomicsGirl

If you're in a union I would speak to the union about whether it would be classed as suitable. Its seems a bit of a grey area. Our unions are arguing with management at the moment as to what is suitable and what is not and there's big areas of disagreement e.g. union wants pay protection, employer says there isn't any. Union wants same location, employer wants anywhere in the country.

If your not in the union I'ld speak to ACAS and try and find out your rights. We get no pay protection in our restructure. It sounds a bit borderline as to whether its suitable or not.

I personally would not leave unless you would get redundancy pay in this climate. I'ld try either get redundancy pay or the job improved or if not stick it out until you get another job offer esp. as you have 6 months on the same pay. Hope you find a solution.

getmore4less

If the are tryng to force the roll upon you then you can fight that there are in my opinion enough differences to make it unsuitable especialy only 6month pay protection.

One option work under protest and go to a tribunal to decide if this is suitable or not. The issue of an ET1 might make them think carefully if they think they can win or not, outcome might be better terms.

Another option is to exercise the right to a 4 week trial watch for the rules on terminating trials correctly so you don't end up in he roll by default. Only do work that you are trained on.

If the job requires training then argue for an extened trial that does not finish till all the training is complete and successfull this protects the redundancy. Extended trials do have issues so worth seeking out opinions on this option.

Sloganjerry

Thanks so much Economicsgirl for responding to my dilemma. What you say makes sense! I would like to be more confident about my position and whether I can get redundancy as I don't want to get into a frosty conflict with my work (and I work closely with my bosses on a daily basis) as I know how awful it would be having to continue working in that type of atmosphere!

Can anyone else offer any further advice?

Sloganjerry

Thanks Getmore4less. (I think we cross posted). More good advice. Just not sure how to play it really? More thinking needed I feel.:think:

unholyangel

First thing i would do would be to voice my objections in writing. Explain your concerns and that why you think this post is an unsuitable alternative.

What does your contract of employment state? Does it have a clause allowing them to vary your contract? If they do, i would make a list of the differences, from current to proposed. A one-sided variation can still be considered a breach of contract as it is an implied term in every contract of employment that the employer has a duty of care towards their employee and vice versa.

If your contract does not allow for variations, i would include in the letter that you are unable to consent to the changes due to the vast differences in fundamentals (ie pay, hours, duties). If they then enforce the changes, it is a breach of contract. You can continue to work under protest but should write your objections every so often (say once a month) to ensure that you working cannot be seen as acceptance.

You could also include in your letter any alternative means to achieve the same outcome. If it is a cost cutting exercise, you could suggest giving up overtime rates, perks/benefits being reduced or removed (for a set period of time to be reviewed at the end of that period in case the scenario improves).

It would be worthwhile contacting CAB and ACAS. Or, if you can find one, a solicitor who offers a free initial consultation.

What i would suggest is working out whether you can afford the drop in pay. Do you think this is worth fighting over and potentially being unemployed over? How you should deal with the matter will depend on the answer to that question. In my own case, the variations would lead to a 60% reduction in pay and hours. On this basis I decided to fight it (and will update my own thread to let people know the outcome when i know myself) and decided (when asked that question) that I basically had no choice but to take it all the way if it comes to that. I cant afford a 60% reduction. If i could, i wouldnt be working full time in the first place. :rotfl: