Do I have to accept 'alternative position'?

Emmzi

I agree, your HR department are wrong. Continuity of employment is what matters UNLESS they are paying you redundancy NOW and rehiring you as a fixed term employee.

So actually if it is a good job I might be tempted to take it safe in the knowledge they are talking rubbish and you'll be entitled to redundancy if they try and lay you off at the end - just don't sign anything...:-)

Em (HR bod)

Sloganjerry

Hmmmmm.......interesting!:think:

Thanks guys!

Sloganjerry

Hi guys! Me again updating you on the latest episode of the ongoing saga.

Had a run in with the boss last Thursday and it’s made my mind up that I definitely want out of there now.

He caught me off guard as we weren’t expecting him in (he was supposed to be on leave). I tried to avoid him but he caught up with me later in the day and called me into his office. I did ask him what he wanted to discuss (as I had been advised by union to avoid any unofficial meetings) but he got quite narky with me, saying I was still an employee and if I was asked to attend a meeting then I should just get on with it. So I thought, oh ok it must be work related, to discuss one of the many projects I’m still working on or something, which is fair enough. So I get in his office and he closes the door and says, “So are you taking this other job or what?” :eek:


I couldn’t believe it. I didn’t know what to say? So I just said that I was still thinking about it, I needed more time to decide, I had more questions and I hadn’t discussed it with my family properly yet, etc, etc. He basically said “You need to hurry up and decide”. So I just said I would have a really good think over the Bank holiday. Then he started going on about how upset he would be with me if I turned down this job offer, after all the company had done for me (I’ve never heard such…..b!*ll*!ks!), all the opportunities he’s put my way. How I’ve only got where I am because of him. How disloyal I was being and that I wouldn’t get as good a job as they were offering me anywhere else anyway. And he asked me if I had been looking for any jobs or what I was going to do? I couldn’t believe it! I thought it’s none of your business so I just said I hadn’t looked at jobs as I didn’t know what I was going to do yet. He said I should go and look on the internet and I would be very surprised to see that there aren’t many well paid jobs out there and that I should think carefully before going ahead with the redundancy. That I was lucky to have a job at all! This may be so but I don’t think he should be the one pointing it out to me?! I didn’t rise to any of it of course and just kept saying, “Oh, yes?” Oh, right?” But I was shaking with anger inside. He was simply playing mind games with me. I couldn’t wait to get out of there and I’ve been fuming about it all weekend! :mad: How does he know I’m not planning to start my own business or something.

Not looking forward to going back in tomorrow. No doubt he’ll be straight on my case. But I’ve decided to say that I want more time still and to try to keep stalling for as long as I can. My redundancy hearing is in 2 weeks time so I can’t see what the rush is myself? Why do they need me to make a decision so quickly? Plus I’m worried what they might start to plan next if they know that I’m definitely going. Will keep you posted peops!

getmore4less

Turning up to meeting when asked does not apply to consultation meetings without notice.

I think I might have come back at him when he started ranting about having any job(easy in hindsight).

"well it not a proper job is it, its only a 2 year contract, I deserve better than that."


Ask HR(first thing) for the company process on consultations, they should include notice so you can bring a rep.

Report(or mention in passing) to HR he conducted a consultation meeting without notice so you could not bring representation.

Official grievance might be an option to consider if HR don't take it up.

I can't recalll, have they issued notice yet?

I would play it different depending on that.

Now you want out it is making sure you get the best payment possible and timing you are agreeable with. Trying to make sure they dont dream up another job is high on the list.
Is there a risk they could withdraw redundacy/notice completely I know this can happen if they need you.

BTW untill terminated you do need to continue to work under contract but that does not include consultation meetings without notice.

Is there someone you can call on at short notice to join in, that will fool him if he tries it again, the person does not have to be the same every time someone else on the at risk list can be good choices*.

I think it might soon be time to throw in the mix you have been taking legal advice.


* remember anyone you chose may be privy to your financial information like salary.

ceridwen

Just to say "Good luck - stay strong".

Definitely a bout of mind games there as you say - the one called Guilt Tripping is one of the ones that comes to mind. I suppose you can take it as some sort of odd compliment that he tried that one on you - as that would seem to imply he basically regards you as a conscientious sort of employee (ie he probably wouldnt have tried that particular tack with one that he thought of as "a waste of space"). So - do take that as at least a compliment to yourself:)

So - what else did he come in for - besides that little "session" with you?:cool: It does sound rather like he came in specially for that - so therefore it must be pretty important to have this situation "signed, sealed and delivered"....Hmmm...wonders if someone else is pressurising him to have this situation finalised?

Anyway...as I said...stay strong..

getmore4less

I am also thinking the boss is on the back foot, probably promised some outcome and now find they cannot deliver unless you stay.


If they do try to make you take this job(or another proposal) are there any others cuurently at risk that should be pooled.

If you can get them to complain they should have been considered that might help to stop them messing about. Especialy if you can find someone that has allready accepted a reduced roll and this would be a better choice for them.

Sloganjerry

Thanks so much getmore4less and ceridwen for your words of support and very good advice.

Just to let you know, I went straight in and spoke with our HR officer first thing this morning and told him about my Boss’s behaviour and the ‘impromptu’ meeting last Thursday. I said that I needed more time to make my decision and that I’d felt very uncomfortable and pressured after the meeting. He was very apologetic, said the boss had just made a mistake, didn’t understand procedure and that it wouldn’t happen again; and agreed to give me further time to decide. I’ve got till Friday. I think HR must have had a word with my Boss because he didn’t speak to me for the rest of the day which is very unlike him.

In case it helps you to know:

No I haven’t actually been served notice of redundancy yet. I guess that will happen at the hearing in 2 weeks.

Unfortunately all other people who we’re in the ‘pool’ have either now left through redundancy or have been ‘redeployed’ to their own role with a new title, more duties and less money. They all seem fairly settled if not 100% happy. (Some are looking for better paid jobs elsewhere anyway). I am the last of the batch to be sorted and one of the lesser paid employees, so no-one would see what they’re offering me as a better choice unfortunately. But was worth suggesting getmore4less. Thanks!

Anyway, thanks so much guys. Your support and kind words have been invaluable. Just need to get through the next couple of weeks now!

Sloganjerry

Hi Guys!

I've just been called into office by HR for my decision and I've now had to verbally reject the second alternative job offered to me! It's done! HR officer was understanding and accepted my decision. I turned it down on the basis of low wage, lower status and being a short term contract. This wasn't disputed and hopefully I can move on to being made redundant now.

I actually feel huge relief now! Just have to face the boss!

Cheers guys!:beer:

getmore4less

Looking good, sounds like the boss got a ticking off, if you can try to put that to one side and be as normal as possible.

Not sure if you mentioned the terms, thread been going some time.

If not allready included and you wan out quick I would be suggesting a fast handover and PILON.

This has the advantage you can sign on for JSA immediately, disadvantage not so easy to access any outplacement support if it is being offered.

Sloganjerry

Hi Guys!

I've been asked today to bring the date of my redundancy hearing forward by a week (to tomorrow!!!). I think they want me out now they realise there's no talking me out of leaving. I said i didn't think my union rep would be able to rearrange but they (that's my boss and HR officer) said they couldn't see why I would need the rep there as it is all quite straight forward now everything is agreed and the alternative jobs are seen as unsuitable to me and this is not disputed.

Just wanted to check that I have a few things straight before meeting tomorrow. I've worked there 11 years so assume I should be entitled to 11 weeks notice or PILON and that this will go from tomorrows date; and my statutory redundancy.

Is there anything else I should be checking out/asking?

Thanks guys! Wish me luck - hopefully I can finish soon now!:beer: