Help me find my lost children

pupsicola

fannyanna wrote: »

It's so sad when you hear stories like this.

Unfortunately it always seems like there's not a lot that you can do about it.

PWC's should lose their claim to maintenance if they act in such an unreasonable manner.

I kind of agree with you, but then the kids would suffer. They have done nothing wrong.

pupsicola

Skipmaster wrote: »

More info. The CAB has returned my call.

If I can show the PWC has intentionally tried to conceal the childrens whaeabouts from me (her father refusing to disclose etc) then I can make an application for a Costs Order to be made against the PWC.

I now need to telephone her father and carefully ask he discloses my childrens whereabouts and capture the entire telephone conversation. If he refuses (which he will) then I can apply for costs.

Thank you everyone who has contributed so much valuable information.

Good luck with this. If you are recording the telephone conversation Im not sure if you have to make the other person aware it is being recorded before saying anything for it to stand up in court. In which case her father may just hang up. Where I use to work we had to say to someone that the conversation was being recorded for that exact reason.

splashproof

SellyOakBlade wrote: »

Make sure you inform him the conversation is being recorded, otherwise you might not be able to use it in court.

pupsicola wrote: »

Good luck with this. If you are recording the telephone conversation Im not sure if you have to make the other person aware it is being recorded before saying anything for it to stand up in court. .

Incorrect as an individual you can, but as an organisation you cannot.

Legality of recording at home

While Ofcom says that at work every reasonable effort should be made to inform all parties to a call that it may or will be recorded, silently monitored or intruded into the latest information from them for recording at home is different.

The following information is taken verbatim from Ofcom's website:

Recording and monitoring telephone calls or e-mails.
A general overview of interception, recording and monitoring of communications.

The interception, recording and monitoring of telephone calls is governed by a number of different pieces of UK legislation. The requirements of all relevant legislation must be complied with. The main ones are:

Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 ("RIPA")
Telecommunications (Lawful Business Practice)(Interception of Communications) Regulations 2000 ("LBP Regulations")
Data Protection Act 1998
Telecommunications (Data Protection and Privacy) Regulations 1999
Human Rights Act 1998
It is not possible to provide comprehensive detail of that legislation here. Any person considering interception, recording or monitoring of telephone calls or e-mails is strongly advised to seek his/her own independent legal advice and should not seek to rely on the general information provided below. It should be borne in mind that criminal offences and civil actions may occur when the relevant legislation is not complied with. Accordingly, Ofcom accepts no liability for reliance by any person on the following information.

Can I record telephone conversations on my home phone?

Yes. The relevant law, RIPA, does not prohibit individuals from recording their own communications provided that the recording is for their own use. Recording or monitoring are only prohibited where some of the contents of the communication - which can be a phone conversation or an e-mail - are made available to a third party, ie someone who was neither the caller or sender nor the intended recipient of the original communication. For further information see the Home Office website where RIPA is posted.

Do I have to let people know that I intend to record their telephone conversations with me?

No, provided you are not intending to make the contents of the communication available to a third party. If you are you will need the consent of the person you are recording.


A third party does NOT include a court of law



Recent Example

Gordon Brown vs Jacqui Janes

The recording of the phone call without Mr Browns permission was legal , but his words were not allowed to be played back in public ( hence why it was transcribed ) because he did not give permission.

But if it was a court case, he would have no say in the matter

He was NOT aware the call was being recorded and it was 100% legal

Skipmaster

SellyOakBlade wrote: »

Make sure you inform him the conversation is being recorded, otherwise you might not be able to use it in court.

As I understand it, I dont need to tell him Im recording the call. Apparently I can give a typed transcript of the call with a affidavit confirming it is genuine. The court will accept this is a call between me and PWCs father.

If the PWC's father denies it is him on the transcript and the court will ask for a sworn statement - a Statutory Declaration to that effect. The tape is produced and if the court agrees the call is him speaking those words on the transcript, then he commits Perjury and its now a criminal matter. Under criminal law , telephone recording can be used without permission of the person being called.

Skipmaster

pupsicola wrote: »

How many private detectives have you tried? If just the one I would look into hiring another. It wont be cheap but then what price do you put on locating your children and building a new relationship with them.

I wish you lots of luck with this.

Only the one, a small-ad in a local paper, she seemed less than entheusiatic to take on the work, so I binned the private detective idea. I now know its cheaper (might even be free) to go with a S&F Order.

Skipmaster

JasX wrote: »

Comming in very late to the thread...... did you try looking for them on Facebook?

Yes and lots more, I managed to get a SAR from Google that confirmed PWCs brother (or his internet connection) has been making extensive searches on me by my full name and sometimes, DOB over a period of about five years.

Google.co.uk logs every search query made to its engine

Skipmaster

DX2 wrote: »

Amazing!
Got so much further in two days than you have done in the previous five years. Wonder how that works.

I only posted it only two days ago. Before that I have extensively researched the problem, from Police, Social Services, CAB and much more, but none of them, not even a free solicitors consultation came up with the Search and Find Order and the fee recovery procedure.

Skipmaster

SellyOakBlade wrote: »

Make sure you inform him the conversation is being recorded, otherwise you might not be able to use it in court.

Only if the Judge gives permission, otherwise a types transcript is good enough to be treated as fact. If the case becomes a perjury investigation, it now falls under Criminal rules and no permission from the person being called is needed.

Skipmaster

fannyanna wrote: »

PWC's should lose their claim to maintenance if they act in such an unreasonable manner.

That might not be such a bad idea. I am fairly sure the PWCs reason for taking the children away from me and denigrating me has a financial motive.

The law does need addressing to encourage family values rather than encouraging PWCs to chase a money trail.

splashproof

Skipmaster wrote: »

As I understand it, I dont need to tell him Im recording the call. Apparently I can give a typed transcript of the call with a affidavit confirming it is genuine. The court will accept this is a call between me and PWCs father.

.

Thats correct ( full details in my earlier post ).

Record away to your hearts delight. You produce the transcript in court and make the tape available to the Judge in case the other party want to verify the transcript.

The myth of declaration of recording telephone calls is based on heresay over the internet. The law is very clear in allowing the recording of phone calls without notice providing it's an individual and not a company.

RIPA have full legal details .