From Council to private renting ....

NikNox

Wee_Willy_Harris wrote: »

The Council will have no interest in the families sleeping arrangements and would NOT have told her that she MUST sleep downstairs. She has probably told them that the children cannot share and they have merely pointed out the only available alternative. There is no LEGAL reason why any of the family members cannot share. Even all 3 in one bedroom would be of little interest to the council.

Moving from secure social housing to private rent requires some very careful consideration.

That's right, years ago there was some sort of legal thing around the children's ages if they were of mixed sex, but that doesn't exist anymore. They're certainly not overcrowded by any means. Maybe they suggested she sleeps downstairs, but it's been relayed to us that she's been told she has to. We get a lot of mixed messages from their way, which is why I thought I'd come to a forum where people know this kind of thing to try to ascertain some factual advice.

I have to say that we worry that moving from secure social housing into private rental is worrying, not least for the fact that she is hopeless with money, hasn't a clue about budgeting because she's never had to, and could put her children's home in jeopardy within a fairly short amount of time.

karenx

But seeing as you know thats wrong you should be telling her she cannot claim JSA as she is not seeking work. That is fraud and you know it so you shouldnt be letting her do it

dseventy

I think your step daughter needs a reality check. Can you give it to her? Or if not print out this thread and give it to her so she can read it?

Points to mention :

1) Not many landlords take people who rely on benefits to pay the rent. (I certainly dont).
2) Those that do want a garunter or at least a few months rent in advance and a huge deposit.
3) The private housing market offers less security than council accommodation. They can be served notice to leave.
4) JSA means she has to seek and be available to work. Sanctions (ie not applying or missing an appointment) can apply.
5) Eventually on JSA (if she wants to be paid) she will have to to a work placement.

Please pass this on. She seems to be setting herself up for a big fail.

D70

MrsManda

I know you say that it is easy to lie about looking for jobs but there will be times where she will be told to apply for a particular job and they will check - there's been a few threads on here in the past where people have been sanctioned for not being able to prove they've applied for the jobs they were pointed to during their signing on day.
Plus you are sent on various work schemes after six months which you have to complete to continue getting JSA.

If she's too unwell to work then she should be claiming ESA not JSA.

Moving from council to private renting is a really bad idea and if she signs a new contract after the 1st April then she will be subject to the new rules.

Wee_Willy_Harris

NikNox wrote: »

That's right, years ago there was some sort of legal thing around the children's ages if they were of mixed sex, but that doesn't exist anymore. They're certainly not overcrowded by any means. Maybe they suggested she sleeps downstairs, but it's been relayed to us that she's been told she has to. We get a lot of mixed messages from their way, which is why I thought I'd come to a forum where people know this kind of thing to try to ascertain some factual advice.

I have to say that we worry that moving from secure social housing into private rental is worrying, not least for the fact that she is hopeless with money, hasn't a clue about budgeting because she's never had to, and could put her children's home in jeopardy within a fairly short amount of time.

Confusion sometimes arises because of the different rules governing overcrowding (statutory), overcrowding (council allocation policy) and LHA eligability. All are a little bit different. It might be worth looking into the LA allocation policy with regards to overcrowding as she may be entitled to some level of priority. It might also be worth looking at mutual exchanges. Perhaps, with a little patience, she may be able to move AND stay in social housing.

I must say, jumping off the social housing bus now is a very strange thing to do under the circs as she may find it much more difficult to get back on than she imagines. Demand is only going to increase, and supply isn't going to keep pace any time soon.

NikNox

karenx wrote: »

But seeing as you know thats wrong you should be telling her she cannot claim JSA as she is not seeking work. That is fraud and you know it so you shouldnt be letting her do it

Sadly telling her is not an option. She's one of the great unemployed with that huge chip on her shoulder that everything is her 'right' and that she is 'entitled' to it all. Besides, if she's committing benefit fraud then that's her lookout. She's been done for fraud in the past (she had an inheritance of £27k back in 06 and intended to stay on benefits because she wouldn't 'cope' with paying rent and council tax. I'm afraid I saw red and reported her, her benefits were stopped, she spent the money in six months, didn't pay rent or council tax during that time and nearly got evicted but managed to evade it somehow and is still paying off the arrears from that time!). It's not a case of not letting her do it and she wouldn't listen to us anyway. She is her own worst enemy!

NikNox

MrsManda wrote: »

I know you say that it is easy to lie about looking for jobs but there will be times where she will be told to apply for a particular job and they will check - there's been a few threads on here in the past where people have been sanctioned for not being able to prove they've applied for the jobs they were pointed to during their signing on day.
Plus you are sent on various work schemes after six months which you have to complete to continue getting JSA.

If she's too unwell to work then she should be claiming ESA not JSA.

Moving from council to private renting is a really bad idea and if she signs a new contract after the 1st April then she will be subject to the new rules.

We sincerely hope that happens, and that she is forced back into work because she certainly won't do it off her own back. Some people are just like that I think and thrive in the benefit culture. When the new Government was elected and announced their plans to shake up the benefits system we were elated because it's about time these people were made to wake up and smell the coffee frankly! But, she's one of those that always seems to get into trouble but manages to get herself out of it, somehow. We'll see though I guess, because the net's closing in!

NikNox

dseventy wrote: »

I think your step daughter needs a reality check. Can you give it to her? Or if not print out this thread and give it to her so she can read it?

Points to mention :

1) Not many landlords take people who rely on benefits to pay the rent. (I certainly dont).
2) Those that do want a garunter or at least a few months rent in advance and a huge deposit.
3) The private housing market offers less security than council accommodation. They can be served notice to leave.
4) JSA means she has to seek and be available to work. Sanctions (ie not applying or missing an appointment) can apply.
5) Eventually on JSA (if she wants to be paid) she will have to to a work placement.

Please pass this on. She seems to be setting herself up for a big fail.

D70

That's why I've posted here for advice, so we can give my stepdaughter the reality check with the knowledge that we're not ignorant about it. When you're not on benefits, it's very confusing to understand what those who are are entitled to or not, so we want to get the facts before we speak to this very impressionable child. She's even planned her new bedroom with new furniture and feature wallpaper etc., which astounds us as we wonder how on earth her mother would ever be able to afford a tin of paint let alone feature wallpaper!!!

I did think that most private landlords weren't keen on taking on those on benefits, and you often see 'No DSS' in their ads, so we did think it was all cloud cuckoo land anyway. We just need to set this child straight before she's let down, yet again.

Jowo_2

It is possible that the maximum LHA your ex is due will get her a 3 bedroom property - the LHA Direct website will indicate the sum and you can check rental websites, such as Rightmove and the Gumtree to see what she can get for that money. The local council may run a rent deposit guarantee scheme and perhaps she'd be eligible for some type of DWP loan to help her move.

That said, many LHA tenants on benefits struggle to find decent properties and have to top up the difference between the LHA and the rent from their own benefits.. Most landlords are averse to accepting them at all, or will demand that they provide a guarantor. She will not enjoy the low rent and security of tenure in the private sector - generally a private tenant will not have a contract longer than 6 months and many are on periodic tenancies which mean the landlord can issue 2 months notice to regain possession of the property.

Also, LHA is often paid directly to the tenant, unless they are classed as vulnerable (those that lead to money management issues) so unless the local council are aware of her addictions, they may pay the mother directly. In a worse case scenario, this could tempt her to spend the money on things other than her rent and lead to the landlord evicting her. The council will then deem her to have made herself intentionally homeless because she did not pay her rent when she could have. As she has children, I think the council are still obliged to help her find housing even if she loses her new tenancy (but I could be wrong).

I know I am posting a pessimistic scenario and this may never be realised, but she can't bring her chaotic lifestyle to the private sector and get the kind of latitude and support that she gets in the social housing sector who are virtually unevictable. A private landlord isn't a branch of social services, won't get involved with personal problems and won't have the wool pulled over their eyes like the Job Centre, she'll just be considered a nuisance and be served notice. A private landlord doesn't have to provide a reason or justify the notice they serve, so long as they serve the paperwork correctly, the judge will always grant possession. There's no 'human rights act' defence that a private tenant can use that social housing tenants can use (social housing landlords are obliged to comply with the HRA).

NikNox

Thanks Jowo, excellent reply and you've hit the nail on the head! We've checked on our local Council website, and they're listed as 'bronze' for rehousing, which is basically the bottom of the pile. They aren't overcrowded and we can't see how declaring her epilepsy would bump her up the list. It's very difficult in our area generally with social housing, and only a couple of weeks ago on the local news it was stated that there is a severe shortage. So, only those with major overcrowding combined with severe medical problems stand a chance of being rehoused. There is the exchange scheme of course, but bearing in mind she's still paying off arrears of rent from 2006, she cannot exchange until it's cleared. Plus, the area is very rough and notorious, so getting someone to swap to there will also be a problem.

To us, if you have the security of social housing, then only a fool would change that. My youngest son is an appentice carpenter for a firm that maintains all the council properties in our county, and it seems to me (and him) that you're pretty well looked after in social housing. We live 20 miles from my stepdaughter, but it's still the same Council, and in our town even those that really abuse their homes don't get evicted immediately, and are given second and third chances to improve, whereas in private rent you're right in that any nonsense or non payment of rent and she'd be out on her own with 2 kids in tow. She'd be more likely to be placed into temporary accommodation in that scenario (i.e. B&B, a flat or hostel type place) for a considerable amount of time before being rehoused by the Council again.

Their house is plenty big enough to have a sofa bed downstairs for her or one of the kids to sleep on. Seems that the biggest issue is the area.