P800 and ESC A19

malcomtentt

dori2o wrote: »

Assuming they have not issued a tax code that the employer has failed to operate that included the benefit, then there is a possibility of claiming under ESC A19 if the benefit goes back a number of years.

Best thing to do is call HMRC, you can ask for a full explanation and claim ESC A19 and speak with an advisor over the phone to get the decision there and then.

Hi Dori2o,

Thanks for the advice. I will do as you suggest. One way or another I just want this resolved so hopefully can get to that point quickly. People on the phone seem suprisingly helpful considering how tough their job must be - but the hold music is rubbish.

Again - thanks.
M.

Mikeyorks

isankey46616 wrote: »

As for the time scale, since starting to investigate this no one has ever indicated that HMRC have acted within the time scale as the information I have gained, from the CAB and alike, have advised me that it is 12 months from the relevent tax year,

But it's crystal clear on the HMRC website (their bold) :-

The circumstances are that HMRC should have used the information provided within 12 months after the end of the tax year in which it is received to notify the taxpayer of any arrears

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/esc/esc.htm

So, for 08-09, HMRC receive information (35M lots of it for PAYE) in late April / May 2009. That tax year ends 5th April 2010 ...... so they have until 5th April 2011.

Bear in mind ESC A19 is a voluntary HMRC concession (which is why it's termed an Extra Statutory Concession) ..... in statutory terms they can go back 6 years.

With respect - it's not reasonable to expect someone else to check things for you. My 2011-12 P2 is sitting on my desk waiting for one piece of info before I check it off and file it. It's a statement, in essence, of the tax I will pay for next year - so I make sure it's 100%. That way I have no surprises.

malcomtentt

Mikeyorks wrote: »

But it's crystal clear on the HMRC website (their bold) :-

With respect - it's not reasonable to expect someone else to check things for you. My 2011-12 P2 is sitting on my desk waiting for one piece of info before I check it off and file it. It's a statement, in essence, of the tax I will pay for next year - so I make sure it's 100%. That way I have no surprises.

Clearly there is an expectations gap between the vast majority of people paying tax through PAYE and the HMRC. This is probably something the government should try to address - possibly by forcing companies to include some standard chat. The self assessment adverts a while back were a good example of improving awareness.
If there wasn't a problem with communication, then we wouldn't see so many people confused as to what is their responsibility.

Plus you have to be realistic. To many people tax _is_ complicated and tough to understand. One can't be surprised if they assume it is the realm of accountants only and just trust the PAYE guys to do it for them.

jennifernil

Most people's tax is not complicated though, it's a misconception.

If people were interested enough to look into it, they would see that that is the case.

Mikeyorks

malcomtentt wrote: »

Plus you have to be realistic. To many people tax _is_ complicated and tough to understand. One can't be surprised if they assume it is the realm of accountants only and just trust the PAYE guys to do it for them.

You do realise my response wasn't aimed at you? This seems to have turned into a bit of a hybrid thread.

Have to disagree with you. At the composite level tax is extraordinarily complex. But at the level where it applies to an individual - and in particular one purely on PAYE - it's only incomprehensible if you do the ostrich bit. Basically you have a personal allowance - which translates to a Code number - you check it and then make sure your employer is using it. And that's 90% of the PAYE populace sorted!

From your first post - you aren't having problems comprehending it? But if you have P11Ds then it would have been sensible to validate you had a Code number that excluded the benefit in kind? As it is - however - and provided HMRC don't deny having received P11Ds ..... you simply require they consider ESC A19. And they will likely write off all the years (edit - apologies just realised it is only the one year) - as the 'Exceptional Circumstances' provision allies (under 'Time Limits' approx 50% down the page)

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/esc/esc.htm

....... but you do need to qualify that 'you believed everything was in order'?

jennifernil

I think it's only the one year they have asked for the tax on (so far!), but the underpayment has been happening for 4-5 years. As in, the Medical Insurance benefit has never been taxed.

ponymad_3

Oh dear...Help please.... Bad day at the office and then home to my underpayment advice of 1056! They are say this is because of benefit from my employer and this has resulted in more 40% liability I think. Does anyone understand how exactly revenue work out the benefit on Employers loan benefit. I have a Bank subsidised mortgage but cannot see how they can arrive at 2626 as income benefit on a mortgage of around 78k (50k of this is at pref rate of .5%/ 28k at 2.5% ) This is the working for 2009/10 also wondering now if I will get another demand for previous years . If this years is wrong too.... How can Revenue and my employer a Bank get this wrong when it is declared on my P111D and I am totally 1 income and PAYE

malcomtentt

Mikeyorks wrote: »

You do realise my response wasn't aimed at you? This seems to have turned into a bit of a hybrid thread.
QUOTE]

Hi Mike,

Yep I realised that it wasn't pointed at me. And I consider myself lucky in that I have a reasonable grasp of tax - esp now that I'm checking HMRC calcs.

My point was merely that most people (if we consider the entire country) find GCSE maths challenging. So if HMRC expects people to 'get it' then they are going to have problems down the line. I don't suggest that people shouldn't try harder - I merely think that the government needs to encourage them a little bit. An educated populance would probably save the HMRC lots of time/enquiries.

(a flat tax would help too!)

Incidentally, I think it's great that you and others who have a lot of knowledge on this are willing to help out via these forums.

Mikeyorks

ponymad wrote: »

Does anyone understand how exactly revenue work out the benefit on Employers loan benefit.

Yes - it's worked on the average official rate for the year in question. Which was 4.75% for 09-10 ....... reflecting the average of publicly available mortgage loans for that year :-

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/interest-beneficial.htm

How can Revenue and my employer a Bank get this wrong when it is declared on my P111D and I am totally 1 income and PAYE

..... it may not be wrong and is simply reflecting the state of play (your P11D for 09-10 doesn't get to HMRC until July 2010) for 09-10. You need to check your Coding Notice for 09-10 and make sure that reflects a deduction for this 'benefit in kind' (it will probably have the 08-09 P11D value - these things inevitably work in arrear unless you tell HMRC as soon as you get the benefit).

The 09-10 P800 presumably reflects the status quo .... ie they will continue to collect via your Coding?

ponymad_3

Thanks for the advice so far... had just managed to about tie up the 2626 income benfit they are charging me. I think I need to move off my staff rate, or should have moved off to a customer deal but may have missed the boat on best deals. (correction have missed the boat). I have had no change in mortgage for at least 5 yrs and totally believed that P111D meant all declared. off to check my notice of coding but will have to wait now til tomorrow. it also looks llike the medical benefit has not been done correctly, again no change in this benefit for many years