P800 and ESC A19

isankey46616

I agree totally that there should be something in school to inform you of your resposibilities or at least something when you start working, i was 40 yrs old in 2008/09 and had been working full time since I was 16 and my assumption was that the PAYE system would ensure my tax affaires were in order. Neither my parents, one of whom worked in payrole at a big company and regularly dealt with tax, or payrole at my work realised that P60s did not count as 'information received' and that it was up to me to inform the tax man of any changes in my income, over and above the P60 information.

I do have a problem, however, with the fact that HMRC would've had my P60s by August 2009 for 08/09 and i was not informed of any problems until December 2010, 16 months after the end of 08/09 tax year and 9 months after the end of 09/10 tax year. If I had been notified in time, the adjustment could've been made during 09/10 and then I wouldn't have had a problem at the end of that tax year. In my opinion they had enough information in plenty of time to inform me before December 2010.

does anyone agree?

jennifernil

They have a year after the end of the tax year in which they receive information.

So for Tax Year 08/09, they would get your employer's return in maybe June/July/August 09. That is TY 09/10.

So they have till the end of TY 10/11. In other words, till 5th April 2011.

dori2o

isankey46616 wrote: »

I agree totally that there should be something in school to inform you of your resposibilities or at least something when you start working, i was 40 yrs old in 2008/09 and had been working full time since I was 16 and my assumption was that the PAYE system would ensure my tax affaires were in order. Neither my parents, one of whom worked in payrole at a big company and regularly dealt with tax, or payrole at my work realised that P60s did not count as 'information received' and that it was up to me to inform the tax man of any changes in my income, over and above the P60 information.

I do have a problem, however, with the fact that HMRC would've had my P60s by August 2009 for 08/09 and i was not informed of any problems until December 2010, 16 months after the end of 08/09 tax year and 9 months after the end of 09/10 tax year. If I had been notified in time, the adjustment could've been made during 09/10 and then I wouldn't have had a problem at the end of that tax year. In my opinion they had enough information in plenty of time to inform me before December 2010.

does anyone agree?

No. First of all P14's are not counted as documents that would result in a tax code change.

Secondly, even if they were documents that apply to the rule, they have acted upon it within the timescales.

They had 12 months from the end of the tax year in which the information was received to act on it. Therefore they have until 5 April 2011.

It does not change the fact that the responsibility is yours to inform HMRC of the changes to your income.

jennifernil

boiler_man wrote: »

I too have a bill for in excess of £1000. I completed tax return for 07/08 and was told that no tax return was required in future. I previously claimed for mileage (don't get 40p per mile from company)in own car. As HMRC did not want further tax returns I assumed that this would be taken into account when sorting out future tax codes. Nothing has changed in my circumstances and I cannot understand how any underpayment has arisen as HMRC were aware of my situation from previous years. :think:

Have you checked actual income and tax paid for that year? It is the only way to be sure.

My husband also had mileage expenses to reclaim every year. One year, he got a letter saying returns were no longer needed. But as his mileage varied year to year, that would not have come out correctly. So he told them he needed to do a return every year. It is the only way to get it 100% correct.

boiler_man

jennifernil wrote: »

Have you checked actual income and tax paid for that year? It is the only way to be sure.

My husband also had mileage expenses to reclaim every year. One year, he got a letter saying returns were no longer needed. But as his mileage varied year to year, that would not have come out correctly. So he told them he needed to do a return every year. It is the only way to get it 100% correct.

I was claiming the mileage on 10K as I drive in excess and get 25p per mile. So there would be no variance each year. My salary was unchanged. I don't think they have taken the mileage into account, but as for the rest of the short fall....goodness knows.

I'm no tax expert and as they had the full information available to them and they chose to drop my tax returns, you expect HMRC to correctly collect your tax. Not to drop you a bill 2 years later.

isankey46616

I am not contesting the fact that it was my responsibility to to inform them if i thought my tax affairs were not in order, I am just saying that i and many other people, including those working in payrole in major organisations, were also not aware of that. As for the time scale, since starting to investigate this no one has ever indicated that HMRC have acted within the time scale as the information I have gained, from the CAB and alike, have advised me that it is 12 months from the relevent tax year, in this case 08/09 not from when they received the information as P60 information has to be with them by the end of April anyway or the company get fined. The only thing that has been said up until now has been that P14s don't count as information received!

malcomtentt

Hi All,

I thought I'd seek the advice of what seems to be one of the only places online to get some clear info on this.

I've received a P800 and the revenue says I owe some money for 2008-9. I've simple tax affairs:
- One income all PAYE
- Same employer over the period 2005-10.
- Same benefits over the period (medical insurance only)
- The underpayment is only around 1% of total tax paid, so to me my tax always seemed reasonable.

HMRC have had P11Ds for the whole period, and they never sent out any code notices or letters during this time (they've confirmed this over the phone).

To my mind this therefore may fall under ESC a19. HMRC had multiple P11Ds and didn't act on any of them.

(I haven't gone back to check the P800 calc yet, but I assume it's accurate as it is just a matter of 40% of medical insurance).

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Cheers
M

dori2o

malcomtentt wrote: »

Hi All,

I thought I'd seek the advice of what seems to be one of the only places online to get some clear info on this.

I've received a P800 and the revenue says I owe some money for 2008-9. I've simple tax affairs:
- One income all PAYE
- Same employer over the period 2005-10.
- Same benefits over the period (medical insurance only)
- The underpayment is only around 1% of total tax paid, so to me my tax always seemed reasonable.

HMRC have had P11Ds for the whole period, and they never sent out any code notices or letters during this time (they've confirmed this over the phone).

To my mind this therefore may fall under ESC a19. HMRC had multiple P11Ds and didn't act on any of them.

(I haven't gone back to check the P800 calc yet, but I assume it's accurate as it is just a matter of 40% of medical insurance).

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Cheers
M

What is the reason for the underpayments? What are the figures from the calculation? we need more information before we can give advice.

malcomtentt

dori2o wrote: »

What is the reason for the underpayments? What are the figures from the calculation? we need more information before we can give advice.

Hi - thanks for your response.

The reason for underpayment is medical insurance paid by my employer. (Of which they were informed from 2005 onwards).

The amount owed is simply 40% of the deemed benefit. Totals around £350 quid.

My point is merely that they repeatedly (2005-2009) failed to process info provided to them. So I think that they have messed up as per ESC A19.

(I will dbl check the taxable benefit when I dig out my 2009 paperwork, but i assuming they can't have transposed that wrong)

Again - thanks for responding.

dori2o

malcomtentt wrote: »

Hi - thanks for your response.

The reason for underpayment is medical insurance paid by my employer. (Of which they were informed from 2005 onwards).

The amount owed is simply 40% of the deemed benefit. Totals around £350 quid.

My point is merely that they repeatedly (2005-2009) failed to process info provided to them. So I think that they have messed up as per ESC A19.

(I will dbl check the taxable benefit when I dig out my 2009 paperwork, but i assuming they can't have transposed that wrong)

Again - thanks for responding.

Assuming they have not issued a tax code that the employer has failed to operate that included the benefit, then there is a possibility of claiming under ESC A19 if the benefit goes back a number of years.

Best thing to do is call HMRC, you can ask for a full explanation and claim ESC A19 and speak with an advisor over the phone to get the decision there and then.