"New 30mph limit on the A40 Westway is dangerously slow" blog discussion

gunnersglory

How can a private company change the speed limit, the council has the only power to change this by-law?

Also they must state that they have changed the limit, See below:

With many existing speed limits being reduced or extended, and new ones being introduced, drivers can easily fail to realise that a speed limit has changed, especially if they have used a road on a regular basis for a long time and are accustomed to the old speed limit. This is especially true in built-up areas with street lighting, where a 30mph speed limit may have replaced a higher limit. Since repeater signs are not permitted in 30mph speed limits on street-lit roads, a change from a higher speed limit to a 30mph limit requires only the removal of the signs indicating the higher limit. The removal of the old signs can easily go unnoticed by drivers.

In the edition of TSRGD that came into effect on 31 January 2003, a new sign, diagram 7032, is authorised for use at the start of a new 30mph speed limit on a street-lit road, under certain circumstances. The sign is as follows:


Direction 37, paragraph (2), of TSRGD sets out the circumstances in which a sign to diagram 7032 may be used:
The sign shown in diagram 7032 —
(a) may be placed only to indicate the point at which a recently imposed speed limit of 30mph begins on a road —
(i) on which there is a system of street or carriageway lighting furnished by lamps lit by electricity placed not more than 183 metres apart in England and Wales or not more than 185 metres apart in Scotland; and
(ii) which had previously been subject to a higher speed limit;
(b) shall be placed as near as practicable to that point;
(c) shall not be placed unless that point could not otherwise be indicated in accordance with these Directions;
(d) may be placed only during the period of 6 months beginning with the day on which the 30mph speed limit comes into force; and
(e) shall not be retained after the end of that period.
The provisions of this direction mean that a sign to diagram 7032 may be placed at the start of a recently imposed 30mph speed limit on a street-lit road that previously had a higher speed limit, although it is not compulsory. It can only be placed at the start of the new speed limit — not at intervals throughout its length as a repeater sign — and only if no other form of signing is required at that point under TSRGD. Furthermore, it can only be displayed for a maximum period of six months.

Thus drivers entering the new 30mph limit from the existing one have only one chance (if that) to realise that the limit has changed — if they miss seeing that one sign, assuming there is one, they may continue at 40mph in ignorance of the change. This in our view is indefensible, and even more so if no sign is installed at all. There was a case in Kidderminster in 2002 where a 40mph limit was reduced to 30mph on the A449 and no signs warning of the change were installed. A large number of drivers were caught exceeding the new limit and one of them went to court, where it was agreed that the highway authority had acted unreasonably by not making drivers aware of the change. The police had to refund all the fines.

Some highway authorities have installed temporary rectangular signs with the words "New speed limit" on a blue background, at intervals throughout new speed limits. This type of sign does not appear as a permitted sign, however, in either the existing edition of TSRGD or the previous one, so it may have been approved by the Department for Transport on an individual basis, or highway authorities may have used it illegally. We consider that all new speed limits should be adequately signed for a minimum of six months after they come into force. Despite the restrictions in TSRGD on the use of such signs, drivers who are charged with exceeding a new speed limit where there is inadequate warning of the change should seek legal advice on the possibility of challenging the prosecution.

Snailspace

pixwix wrote: »

But what I really resent is - in those very situations where a driver needs to be concentrating on the road - the powers that be would far prefer our attention to be on the dashboard! In some cases at least, speed limits are actually dangerous. The good drivers don't need them, the bad drivers don't give a damn.

Isn't it time that Intelligent Speed Adaption was implemented. Posh name for devices using GPS and/or other technologies that automatically enforce speed limits. Then you wouldn't have to look at the dashboard.

If we had this:
- speed limits could of enforced without cameras, police or fines
- speed limits could actually be raised on very safe roads i.e. between junctions on flat sections of motorway. We could actually drive faster!
- No need for speed bumps anymore and the damage and frustration they cause plus the problems for police and emergency services
- No more high speed pursuits. Hey the police might even catch some criminals?
- There could be sensible gradual decreasing/increasing limits at pinch points that would manage traffic better
- Eventually further developments using this kind of technology could lead to cars driving themselves
- It could be done without losing any privacy

The DfT and TfL have run some trials but gone no further.

Lum

- GPS isn't accurate enough for ISA to work reliably. Never driven down a motorway and had your sat nav start jumping between the motorway and the B road that runs alongside it?

- No government or local council is going to raise speed limits, it's political suicide after 10+ years of "speed kills" propaganda

- Will still need speed bumps for many years to come unless you intend retrofitting ISA to every car on the road, including finding some way of retrofitting it to the older ones that don't have CANBUS

- Those older cars without ISA will likely become a lot more value, expect to see them being better maintained and kept around for longer.

- There are situations where the best way of avoiding the accident is to accelerate, not brake, for example if you have a tailgater AND someone tries to change lane into the side of you. ISA will prevent one escape option in these situations

- We will still have high speed pursuits as anyone with criminal intent will disable the ISA system

- Self driving cars are illegal.

NYCtoLondonGuy

I searched for this thread because I wanted to simply know if there were actually cameras on this stretch of roadway. Looks like the answer is NO, even though there is a sign indicating a speed camera is in use. To answer the question on why it has been reduced to 30mph, there is a SMALL yellow sign at the onset of the speed reduction zone that states it is due to bridge joints. I presume that means the joints on the flyover are at risk of failing if you go 50 vs 30mph?

I am not an engineer but I think this is just a silly speed limit on that area of the road. If you are at idle rpm, you will still coast faster than 30mph. You actually have to brake and keep your foot on the brake - unsafe all around.

mutant_matt

From the TFL letter to Martin:

"If those repairs are successful we will be able to review the temporary speed restriction." I suspect that SPEC cameras will follow (average speed cameras, with the dangerous bunching that will follow)

So, it won't automatically go back to the original limit, like would normally happen with a "temporary" speed limit then!? They will review *if* they want to change it back, but having painted the reminders on the road, I think it's clear the future intention!

I used to drive the road 4 times a day, and the national limit as it was then (70mph, 60mph at the White City flyover, 50 and then 40mph at the far east elevated end and at the ground-level west end), was just right for the road type.

I believe the rot set in when Ken decided that no road within a London bourough could have more than a 50mph limit, and I think was trying to lower that again to 40, not long before London finally had the sense to kick him out!

To be filed under "meddling PC polititians"!

mutant_matt

Broadcaster wrote: »

And while I'm in full rant, what on earth are we supposed to understand by the "Dust Suppressant Trial Site" signs both at the end of the Westway itself, and then further down at Euston Rd? Have these people nothing else to spend the scarce funds they claim to have, than on totally pointless 'information' ? What, for heaven's sake, is a dust suppressant site?????

Search for the link for "Dust Suppressant Trial Site" and look at the London dot Gov dot UK aritcle):

press_releases_mayoral uk-first-innovative-trial-reduce-london-air-pollution-gets-underway

What the article doesn't tell you, is, whilst they need to reduce the levels of PM10s, the vast majority of them come from Diesel engines, those same Diesel engines the government are positively encouraging via central taxation on their crusade against "cliamate change", via the misguided simplification of "climage change" = co2, or worse "carbon" :rolleyes:

pievien

it is now November, does anyone know why the speed limit is still 40mph instead of the original 50mph.

markmead

Worse than an 'unnecessarily slow' speed limit are those people that drive dangerously slow on a fast road. This really gets my goat - is far more dangerous not to mention selfish. Those drivers who are incapable/worried about driving on a quick road should not be driving on those roads. I understand the saying "it's a limit not a target", but if the limit is 60mph and a driver's toodling along at 35mph, that person is unsafe and an irritant - and regardless of justification, that makes a dangerous combination for other road users!

Donnie_Cosdoney

I reckon it's just to dupe the stats in order to comply with internationally agreed emissions requirements. That whole " you are now entering a london low emission zone" is BS.