"New 30mph limit on the A40 Westway is dangerously slow" blog discussion

Stephen_Leak

If there aren't at least two speed limit signs with red circles, fully compliant with diagram 670 of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002, then there's no speed limit in law.

Lum

callum9999 wrote: »

I'm not saying you can't, but EVERYONE who speeds feel they can do it safely (otherwise they wouldn't do it) but as I'm sure you're aware there are many accidents, or accidents that would happen anyway are made much worse, by people speeding.

According to the DFT report in 2008. 4.7% of accidents involved exceeding the speed limit as a primary or contributory factor. Which means that at least 95.3% of accidents were NOT caused by exceeding the limit.

The original 33% figure has been widely discredited as they basically added up all factors that had "speed" in the title, such as "Excessive speed for the conditions", which could be 30mph in a 50 limit in thick fog, and "Failure to judge other vehicle's speed or direction", which is a failure in observation. Add them all together to get the "33% of accidents are speed related" claim used to justify cameras.

Most Safety Camera Partnerships have stopped citing this figure, though it still crops up from time to time in literature from ill-informed local councils and campaigns.

The vast majority of accidents are caused by failures of observation.

Observation that might be improved if everyone wasn't staring at that damn speedo dial out of fear of getting a ticket!

I say bring back the 85th percentile rule.

Jacka87

glasgowsoundman wrote: »

When the next round of works on the White Cart Viaduct are completed, the speed limits should be raised. The reduced speed limit is due to the narrowed lanes, caused by the HGV barriers on the sides of the viaduct. The works will remove these and (I believe) strengthen the bridge, allowing the limit to be raised.

Please note that MOST of the works will be done inside the bridge structure, so there should be limited impact on traffic.

I do appreciate the lanes get narrower as you go over the viaduct, what I dont get is why the y drop in stages. If they wanted to drop from 70 to 40 then why not put a sign up saying 40 in 300yds or something? Some people see the drop to 50 but miss the drop to 40 as a result speed whilst driving over viaduct. One of my friends got caught out by this exact problem and got 3 points.

Another issue is this causes peopel to have to slam the brakes on twice! You see the 50 so need to lose 20mph so brake. Then you see the 40 and need to do it again. If it was a 40 in 300yds then you could gradually reduce your speed over the 300yds and remove the need for excessive speeding.

Further to this whilst driving the other day I came accross a police car just before this bit of road. The traffic where not generally going to slow to 40mph until they seen the police car and duely obeyed limit and dropped to 40, only for the police car to sit at around 50 and overtake everybody. Th ereason I paid attention to the whol;e incident was due to this thread, but I must note that the police car slowed to the initial 50 and I nearly overtook by accident whilst (ok speeding at this point) was lsowing down gradually to avoid hitting breaks, I then had other cars who where doing similar hit the breaks and it nearly caused an accident on a very dangerous bit of road. It seemed very much like the police where just trying to catch somebody speeding.

Anyway, I just think roads should have speed limits associated with the conditions of the roads. Why a country road with bends and no lighting has a higher speed limit than sections of the M8 is beyond me. Over all some roads need speed limits reduced whilst others defo need an increase.

Lum

A lot of non-traffic coppers will probably quietly agree that a lot of these limits are rubbish. They also know that if they sit at bang on the limit they'll collect a huge number of cars too scared to overtake, causing lots of bunching and risking an accident.

On motorways they avoid this by driving at 60, but on this stupid 30 limit what are they going to do, drive at 20? That would be even more dangerous so just overtaking at 50 was probably the safest option.

Doubtless someone will make a complaint to the chief constable about how this dangerous speed (which was perfectly safe last week) caused an orphanage full of kittens to explode, or something.

flyingscotno1

Jacka87 wrote: »

I do appreciate the lanes get narrower as you go over the viaduct, what I dont get is why the y drop in stages. If they wanted to drop from 70 to 40 then why not put a sign up saying 40 in 300yds or something? Some people see the drop to 50 but miss the drop to 40 as a result speed whilst driving over viaduct. One of my friends got caught out by this exact problem and got 3 points.

Another issue is this causes peopel to have to slam the brakes on twice! You see the 50 so need to lose 20mph so brake. Then you see the 40 and need to do it again. If it was a 40 in 300yds then you could gradually reduce your speed over the 300yds and remove the need for excessive speeding.

Further to this whilst driving the other day I came accross a police car just before this bit of road. The traffic where not generally going to slow to 40mph until they seen the police car and duely obeyed limit and dropped to 40, only for the police car to sit at around 50 and overtake everybody. Th ereason I paid attention to the whol;e incident was due to this thread, but I must note that the police car slowed to the initial 50 and I nearly overtook by accident whilst (ok speeding at this point) was lsowing down gradually to avoid hitting breaks, I then had other cars who where doing similar hit the breaks and it nearly caused an accident on a very dangerous bit of road. It seemed very much like the police where just trying to catch somebody speeding.

Anyway, I just think roads should have speed limits associated with the conditions of the roads. Why a country road with bends and no lighting has a higher speed limit than sections of the M8 is beyond me. Over all some roads need speed limits reduced whilst others defo need an increase.

Friend got 3 points for the White Cart? Unlucky, I heard it was defective and Pepipoo were on the case.

Of course the country road section is an anomaly- theoretically the limit is 60mph, but it is just a national limit for any class of road. We could have millions of speed limits orders and repeater signs littering the country but the NSL is entrusting the drive to chose a safe speed on minor roads. Motorways like the M8 are busy and have speed limits for traffic flow and the White Cart is for roadworks but is too low- personally I'd have made the whole thing a 50mph limit but there you go.

It doesn't do it in steps- westbound on M8 it goes 70-40-50-70, A737 would be 70-40-60-70. Eastbound both go 70-50-40-60-70. Both the 50mph limits and 60mph limits were there before roadworks.

Lum

Need more variable limits for roads like the M8. Pointless to do 40 at 3AM, you just waste time and petrol.

While we're on the subject of variable limits, can we have them go up at quiet times. No reason why motorways can't be 90+ at night time.

Wail

90 mph at night should not be an option. First night needs to be defined. Darkness reduces the effective capacity of the driver to see the road ahead meaning that anything not lit cannot be reacted to within the sweep of the headlights. In addition, Motorways are patrolled at night by sweep gangs who regularly can be sections of lanes and close and reopen them swiftly. There is also the issue of the difference in driving speed of HGV's and cars being 30mph+.

We should look at 80mph on managed motorway sections where speed limits can be changed and drivers informed of sudden lane closures ahead of time.

It isn't legal until they put 30mph signs up but they should cut the limit in stages and not from 70 to 30 on a straight section.

The best road capacity speed is 50 mph which is the reason why you will see it used (2,300 vph per lane is a figure I recall). Fast drivers are only driving quicker into the next traffic jam caused by the driver at the front either being stopped or following the limit of the road or their vehicle.

Lum

By night, I was meaning way past rush hour and commuting time, say after 9PM maybe?

If street sweepers are out then you don't raise the limit, or lower it.

And yes I was talking about raising it on roads where there are variable limits.

ask66

mdjohnst wrote: »

Totally agree. The larger the road the slower you appear to go. 30 on a narrow lane feels fast but on a three lane road it feels like you are standing still.

I cannot see any logic in some speed limits. I live on a country lane where there is a national speed limit. My parents live on a similar lane but with a 30mph limit.

Couldn't agree more. I drive on many roads that previously had sensible limits of 40-70mph but have now been reduced by 10-20mph for no apparent reason. Often there is an accompanying speed ("safety") camera to catch people breaking the new, lower limit. And I'm not talking about roads in residential areas or near schools etc - these are wide, straight roads, often dual carriageways. No wonder respect for the police and legal system is so low.

GentleGiant_2

surely in order for a speed limit to be reduced, there has to be a planning order (or the equivalent thereof) which will specify the length of time the speed limit is valid for.

The local council would know this surely?