"New 30mph limit on the A40 Westway is dangerously slow" blog discussion

user107

I doubt this applies to the OP's road and problem, but as nobody seems to have touched on the subject, I thought I'd chip in.
I've attended resident's meetings, where we've had speed ramps installed on long fast roads on the perimeter of our housing area, not for safety, but for noise.
The increase in car traffic in the last 10 years is about 20+% IIRc. An argument was also presented that cars are built heavier, more powerful with wider tyres than when the houses were built. The increase in vans, popularity of people carriers, 4x4s, all add up.
On rough higher limit road surfaces, speeding produces a hell of a din.

The nail in the coffin for our road, was the bikers who never go below the limit, with race cans fitted, waking sleeping kids in the summer. The road seems to be far less of an attraction now. The sad thing is, peope have picked on race tracks as an easy target in the past and there are now less places for the gas-heads to go and get a buzz and freedom.

It is a lot easier to drive faster in today's more comfortable cars and not realise or care what's going on outside. I go over myself, and also find low speed limits a struggle. I've driven old cars at low limits and it was never a big deal back then in the old tin cans with no sound proofing.
By all means speed safely, just be aware the sound of high revving engines, loud pipes especially and even speeding through quiet villages when you're the only one on the road, will bring attention in a negative way.

I've been on both sides of the noise thing, attending meetings defending motocross parks that were only used monthly, under threat of closure due to noise. People are getting more and more stressed, with there being proof of links to many illnesses.
I've also spent time in Holland where there is a big focus on calming traffic with new schemes designed to confuse motorists into calmer driving. I can't ever see Britain go that far to be fair.

Check out the EEA and WHO's websites and search on 'traffic noise' it's probably going to be bigger than global warming.
I'm sure there are other reasons for the road in question in the OP, but my points are something that Clarkson never addresses. On the contrary they normally praise nosier vehicles on top gear. Petrol heads quite like the attention.

Speaking of which, just for a laugh...

see 'southparkstudios' website, Season 13 episode 12 'the F word'
:rotfl:
(sorry wont let me post link)

spg_SCOTT

As someone who is learning to drive (with a view of taking my practical test this month) and having driven on this road before now (when it was 50) I can't say I am experienced enough to comment on the actual limit, but it is the signing that gets me...
For a start, I think the signs are not well enough designed...nor is the general placement of them

From what I have seen, 40 and 50 signs are REALLY small, and often aren't really readable until you are there...
Then there are the signs for smaller roads that are next to an A-road. I have driven on the A3 and at times there is a smaller section of road that runs parallel to it, but is only 30. Now driving along between 40 and 50, to suddenly see a 30 sign confused me so much because from where I was sitting, it looked as though it is on the same carrigeway that I was on, not to mention it was HUGE...it wasn't until my instructor asked why I was slowing down that I realised the mistake I made...

At least make sure the signs are consistent and readable...

Then there are those places that are 30 for most of the road, the 40 for all of 2 minutes, whats the point?

VValley798

A lot of new signs have gone up in this H&F borough lately. One example is the no U-Turn on Gliddon Rd/Edith Rd. While there is some reason for this particular location (may cause long cues backed up accross Talgarth tripple carriage way), no warnings were give. Several people have received 'several' PCNs:eek:, each. The council has now to raise money for services, since the Govt. CUTS. We all simply have to 'Watch It' or pay. I stopped driving unless absolutely neccessary. My GPS has not caught up with the new road sign changes yet. So WATCHOUT everywhere, but not too much; could be dangerous.

penelopelondon

I often use that road, and was horrified to see the speed limit reduction yesterday, having been out of the country for 3 months. As people have already said, the signage is equally absurd, but the signage on that particular road is always a mess, often advising of closures which already happened weeks ago. This is a dangerous distraction, and totally inefficient. Poor learner drivers. Signage generally in the U.K. is hopeless - 'flood' is a favourite, often weeks after the event. Even motorway signs warning of accidents etc. and suggesting diversions are usually out of time/date and I ignore them. I never ignore them in France because they always reflect the current situation. Just glad to hear that these pathetic and dangerous 30mph signs painted on the road are not legally enforceable. And as people say, they are dangerous too. What with the rise in petrol prices in the 3 months I've been away, I think I'll take the train tomorrow, which is what we should all be doing anyway!

ticketcollector

Martin
If this is on the elevated section of the A40 westway, then it is not legal and has not been enacted by secondary legislation. Further more it is a breach of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions.

There was recently some roadworks underneath the elevated section and the contractor morons put signs above the section, I suspect they have failed to take them away.

I also believe that there should be repeater signs as well (unless its a built up area with streetlamps)

Call up TfL streets and ask whats going on.
Failing that an FoI is always good.

pixwix

I'm an old fart who - according to my family - drives like an old lady. So speeding isn't really in my nature these days (I haven'y bothered to have the sole speeding conviction from over a decade ago removed from my licence as it's the only bit of street cred I have left).

But however unlikely it is for me to break them, I detest the increasing number of speed limits in and around the small Scottish town I live in, and the stupid bureaucratic mindset that produces them. I fully see the sense in watching your speed where conditions are tricky or crowded, especially in the vicinity of schools, etc. But those conditions are rare around here and most speed limits (not to mention easy-pinch enforcement that smacks of OCD) are clearly to do with little more than revenue generation and the exercise of petty power.

But what I really resent is - in those very situations where a driver needs to be concentrating on the road - the powers that be would far prefer our attention to be on the dashboard! In some cases at least, speed limits are actually dangerous. The good drivers don't need them, the bad drivers don't give a damn.

In any case it would be hard to speed around our local schools - at least at times when it might matter. Apart from a plethora of flashing signs that distract more than they inform, it's more than your life's worth to do more than walking speed as you look out for children playing chicken and parents flinging open their car doors or pulling away from the kerb without a glance. Speed? It would be nice to think it was even possible!

twentyonemile

While I can't comment on that particular stretch of Blacktop I think I remember an article somewhere suggesting a system that made send to me:

Basically because many modern/high end cars are so much safer, and more capable - in terms of braking, than the old ones on which the speed limits were based we could introduce a two tier system...

Normal drivers would have the option of applying for an Advanced licence (giving them a Red number plate to distinguish themselves). These advanced drivers would have to prove their car meets certain safety standards (NCAP etc) and they would have to take a short proffiency test.

Passing this test/criteria would allow these drivers with Red plates to drive up to say 100mph on normal motorways, unless otherwise indicated. It would also likely end up being a prestigious licence to hold - showing you are a skilled driver.

It's a win-win situation. Advanced drivers/cars save lots of time in the long run and get the repsect from holding the Advanced licence. (I know plenty of blokes that like to brag about their driving skills!)

In turn the Government bring in extra revenue from the licences and new style Red number plates. (Money that can go into maintaining roads...making things safer!)

Everyone's happy! Seems like a good idea to me!

jl1954

Speed limits are introduced by processing a legal order. In this case, the legal order will have been processed by either the local authority or, if it is a trunk road, by the Highways Agency. By law, it should have been advertised on site and in the local papers. This is the point at which members of the public have a legal right to object to the proposals. Once the objection period is finished, there isn't much you can do to change the situation other than complaining to your local councillor.

Two things that you could chase up. 1. Ask the body that made the new speed limit if you can see the statement of reasons for the new order. This is the reasons why the speed limit has been made. Secondly, check with your local police traffic section to see if they had any thoughts on the reduction when they were, as they had to be, consulted.

Finally, I am assuming this is a permanent, rather than a temporary order. Temporary orders are introduced for a fixed period while road works are going on and are then removed.

Hope this helps

simon_the_saver

I think Top Gear last Sunday mentioned it was related to roadworks under the bridge (not sure how traffic speed above affects works below, but I'm not a highway engineer) and SHOULD be temporary.

Still a hazard to have 'fast' roads running at low speeds if the signage and enforcement does not allow drivers time to react...

Maybe a related topic: anyone know why the lighting on the same stretch was 'cropped', rather than repaired/replaced?

Nightorca

My question would be is it a legal speed limit? There is only a 30 sign painted on the floor no other signage and certainly no large signs showing you are entering a 30 area as shown in the highway code!!!!