"New 30mph limit on the A40 Westway is dangerously slow" blog discussion

user107

f1millerman wrote: »

Spot on, Ive been hit by a few cars in my 30 odd years driving,( not yet hit one but sure the odds are coming down ;-) ) And on every occasion its been below the speed limit, on 2 occasions at less than 20 mph. Speed does not kill, it never has, its the pillock behind the wheel thats the problem, either admiring the scenery ( old uns ) looking at a smart bit of kit ( young/middle aged uns ) or talking on their damn mobiles ( everyone) :think:

The problem with the 'speed kills' campaign, is motorists like yourself and above have taken it literally.
You said yourself you were hit at low speeds. If you'd been hit at high speed you'd likely not lived to tell us.

Ultimately the Police want people to slow down to save money on mopping up. The cost of one road death is approx £1.5m.

Lum

That's still a very simplistic view, which is the real problem with the "speed kills" campaign. It fails to take into account the knock-on effects of slowing people down:

Distraction due to the activity of driving not being challenging enough to keep the mind focussed on the important task at hand
Fatigue caused by being on the road for longer than is necessary
In some drivers, frustration about the perceived unnecessary delays can lead to road rage.

The first two lead to poor observation, which leads to accidents. The last one leads to aggressive behaviour, which again leads to accidents.

Richard_J.

The latest news from Westway is that they have now, I hear, put up 30mph red-circled signs, so it may now be legally enforceable. Still daft though to impose it with no explanation over a 2-mile stretch of 2 x 3-lane carriageways.

mrtimdog

Just drove down there yesterday, the signs look permanent, I've a fair doubt they'll ever take them down without help, so my question is ...

Where, and how, do we officially complain so that we will be heard by people who have anything to do with this?

Cheers,
Tim

poolio

I drive this stretch 2 or 3 times a week, and only noticed the change today. I'm pretty observant but the fact is if you drive a stretch as part of your daily commute, you just don't look at the signs every day. It's madness that there is no warning or explanation.

I was the only person doing 30mph today.I don't plan to be doing that every day, but firstly I was a bit surprised and confused, and secondly I fully expect the mobile cameras to be out in force to punish drivers who - like me until today - simply had not noticed. It felt utterly ridiculous, I was the only driver doing under 50 and the vast majority were still doing the 60-65 which is the standard safe speed for that stretch.

If it's to keep workmen safe then I reluctantly acknowledge that it might be necessary, but why has there been NO warning? And yes, I agree with the poster above that the 30 signs look VERY permanent indeed.

kitbits

Yes this does seem daft.
Reply from TFL as follows:
Dear Mr Martin

Re: A40 wrong speed limit signs

Thank you for your e-mail of 26 February 2011, that reported change of speed limit at the above location. We at Transport for London (TfL) are most obliged to you for taking the trouble to do so.

“TfL has temporarily reduced the speed limit from 50 to 30 mph on the A40 Westway while we carry out bridge maintenance to replace several of the expansion joints on the flyover. The work will be done as quickly as possible with the minimum amount of disruption.

“New road markings have been painted onto the carriageway as this section of the A40 is not currently lit at night. The speed limit has been reduced to 30mph to keep the road open.”


Additional information:

• Road markings have been used as temporary road signs could not be installed due to the narrow hard shoulders along the A40 Westway and the lack of a power supply on the bridge.

• The speed limit has been decreased to 30 mph to preserve the temporary repairs to the expansion joints that were carried out over the last week.

• Although the bridge is still safe for drivers to use, further repairs will be carried out as soon as specialist parts can be manufactured, which we expect to be a matter of weeks.

• If those repairs are successful we will be able to review the temporary speed restriction.

Thank you once more for bringing the matter to our particular attention. I shall be pleased to assist if you have any further queries.


Yours sincerely



Dorothy Solomon
Customer Service Advisor

106driver

Hello all!

This is most unfortunate and almost certainly teaches the citizen to have contempt for *all* speed limits.

A sensible alternative would be to have speed limits limited to certain times of day. I know that this is done in Germany (for example on the Autobahn for noise abatement purpose).

Another suggestion would be to have a short explanatory sign at the beginning of the section. Most people are reasonable and so are more likely to comply if they know what it is for.

Regards,

106driver

ianbhenderson73 wrote: »

I think you should mount a campaign. There are countless roads up and down the country that have a speed limit that is only really applicable during certain times of the day.

As you say, in an age of digital signage it should be more than possible to set different speed limits for different times of day. After all, I can think of areas in Glasgow where the speed is limited to 20mph for about half an hour before school opens, and half an hour after it closes. The limit is posted using electronic signage and there are also signs reminding drivers that a reduced speed limit is in place when the electronic signage is switched on.

It almost sounds as if the decision to reduce the speed limit was taken with an eye on how many people would be fined as a result.

ChaosmonkeyUK

Hi everyone

I have to say, i do feel like a right muppet doing 30 on this road, only because everyone else seems to be doing 50+

yesterday I even had someone in a Nissan Micra right up behind me constantly flashing their lights, just overtake if my law abiding speed bothers you

I've only recently passed my test so theres no way i'm going to break the limit for at least 2 years, can't they increase it to 40 so that it doesn't feel so dangerously slow

i drive in at around 6.30 each morning and even then i get queues forming behind me until they all overtake, surely traffic flow is important too, and it's not rocket science, but increase it to 40 and we all get where we need to that little bit quicker

Anyway, rant over, back to work

Broadcaster

This has got to be one of the stupidest speed limits in Greater London, and a ludicrous waste of our money in the way it has been imposed. One wonders whether anyone from TFL has actually driven down the road.

It was TFL who (also inexplicably) removed all the lighting (hardly something that enhances safety) - WHY? What justified turning off the street lights? Did anyone think it would improve road safety or traffic flow? What is this statement about the road being "NOT CURRENTLY LIT" - why is that, please? Are they thinking of spending more £millions reinstalling the lights THEY cut down???

To paint a couple of dozen '30' restrictions on the carriageway itself for the new restriction is a ludicrous waste of cash.... with even more expense in removing them - if it ever happens. There IS a hard shoulder, and ample means of fixing temporary limits onto the barriers, as well as numerous overhead signs.

This is NOT 'a bridge' as per the TFL letter. It is an elevated carriageway of motorway standards. It DOES have power (what supplied the lights they cut down?) TFL are lying, or just incompetent. Probably both.

This is a road built to motorway standards. For decades it has worked well, and a welcome relief after Marylebone Rd. There have been a couple of problems with the expansion joints... quickly rectified. There is NO evidence of work being undertaken on a daily basis requiring a speed limit. And I challenge the need to impose such a limit to 'preserve the temporary repairs'. What effect does the speed of traffic have on the concrete they have put in?

Boris was elected on a promise (amongst others) of removing unnecessary restrictions on traffic flow. He should be forced to come to Westway and drive at the 'legal' limit, and see if he feels his mignons are following his policy. It's positively DANGEROUS to impose a ludicrously low limit which is 95% ignored - because there is no logical reason whatsoever to obey it.

I agree with others who've suggested this kind of limit actually encourages complete disrespect of limits. Almost all of us would respect a temporary limit imposed if and when work was actually occurring. But when the road is clear of obstructions, this is at least a 50mph route that gets traffic moving.

Maybe a campaign could be based around asking just how much it has cost to impose this limit, and what, PRECISELY, are the objectives (and not the non-excuses in the TFL letter above) ?

If the authorities move on to actually trying to make money out of us by imposing fines on this stretch, this is one motorist (with not a single traffic offence fine or points in 40 years' driving) that might be moved towards civil disobedience.


And while I'm in full rant, what on earth are we supposed to understand by the "Dust Suppressant Trial Site" signs both at the end of the Westway itself, and then further down at Euston Rd? Have these people nothing else to spend the scarce funds they claim to have, than on totally pointless 'information' ? What, for heaven's sake, is a dust suppressant site?????

Print_Screen

I doubt that this limit will ever be removed.
I believe that this road was once a national speed limit road
Then brought down to 50 and now 30

All that will be said is that accidents have now been reduced so 30 will stay. In that case why not reduce all roads including motorways to 20mph and be really safe:doh: