Who's being unreasonable here?

moggylover

I'm with the majority here. I think you are truly lovely to want to help your sister and that your concerns are quite justified. I see nothing wrong with a gift of this nature having strings: it's not quite the same as a box of chocolates after all:)

I also think that perhaps putting your case to her gently in writing might be easier than the telephone or face to face, unless you are certain you can hold your temper if she is still bolshy:)

Good luck with this: I think your sister is a fool to risk hurting her relationship with you when you are only trying to help:)

Mojisola

meritaten wrote: »

I probably disagree with some when I say if the money is a GIFT to your sister then a gift is a gift and you should have no say in how your sister uses it. a LOAN is a different matter - its ok to impose conditions on that.

Why didn't she refuse the gift when it was offered?

It's the fact that the gift was offered with a proviso and little sis wanted the gift without saying that she didn't agree with the terms that's upset big sis.

I don't think that a gift of money like this has to given without strings. I know of cases where parents have given money to their offspring for specific reasons - putting towards a mortgage or a particular educational course. The gift was to pay for that thing and that thing only. It wouldn't have been given otherwise.

If the offer of cash is given with strings, I think the recipient either accepts the terms or says no thanks.

meritaten

Mojisola wrote: »

Why didn't she refuse the gift when it was offered?

It's the fact that the gift was offered with a proviso and little sis wanted the gift without saying that she didn't agree with the terms that's upset big sis.

I don't think that a gift of money like this has to given without strings. I know of cases where parents have given money to their offspring for specific reasons - putting towards a mortgage or a particular educational course. The gift was to pay for that thing and that thing only. It wouldn't have been given otherwise.

If the offer of cash is given with strings, I think the recipient either accepts the terms or says no thanks.

yes I understand what you say - errata said something similar - but to me a gift that comes with strings - It ISNT a gift! I can understand her sister agreeing at the time and now being upset. I can understand the OP being upset too! the way this is - everyone is upset! big sis either has to GIVE the money without strings and trust little sis - or she makes it a LOAN and can impose conditions! and that is entirely up to the OP! I dont know how reliable her sis is! I dont know if OP is a control freak! it just seems to me its a gift or a loan and its up to OP which it is!

floss2

Errata wrote: »

Surely the time for the younger sister to kick off was when the gift and condition was discussed and presumably accepted, not some time afterwards?

Yes, but at that point she probably hadn't thought about any potential embarrasment about sharing the money's origins with her BF.

paddy's_mum

I so disagree with the viewpoint that a gift of this magnitude should not have any strings attached. Open-handed and string free giving is fine in principle but in the real world, it simply cannot work like that.

For an example, let's assume this scenario - if I was to give my daughter a considerable sum of money to help her out of a financial hole of some kind, I do not expect to get a postcard from her two days later saying that she and her guttersnipe, faithless boyfriend are swanning around Barbados and that she's had a wonderful time in the duty free shop and just wait till you see my new Gucci handbags. Each one of the dozen in a different colour, Ma!

Equally, if I lend my grandson money to buy the necessary tools to embark on a set-him-up-for-life apprenticeship, I don't expect to find that he spent 60% of that hard earned money on a sordid weekend in the brothels of Amsterdam.

There has been a thread only in the past few days about an aunt who has spent 7 or 8 years putting money into a niece's savings account only to discover that her sister has purloined the child's money for her own purposes! I consider the sister to be a thief but going strictly by the no-strings theory, nothing untoward has taken place. I don't think so! (Edit to add - the OP in that thread is MoneyMaLady for those that may have missed it)

I also think that the OP has a graver question to ask herself, given the very unpleasant and ungrateful tantrum the sister has thrown. It is this - can the younger sister be trusted in the future if she is apparently so willing to rat on a previous, highly sensible agreement which was actually designed to protect her? Unless an apology is forthcoming tout suite, I'm afraid I would take the view that this ungrateful wretch is her own worst enemy. Why should the OP fund her sister's learning curve in the realities of life?

smartpicture

I'm just very sad that trying to do a nice thing for someone I love has caused so much upset :( Especially as that was the very reason I decided to make it a gift, not a loan, because I've known situations where lending money has destroyed friendships and relationships, and I didn't want that for us.

The truth is, I probably am a bit of a control-freak but I do try and be diplomatic about it and I'm really only trying to do what's in her best interests! But even as I say that, I can remember how much it used to annoy me when I was a teenager and my mum would say exactly the same thing, so I can understand where she's coming from.

I'm annoyed because she should have said she wasn't happy about the conditions earlier and we could have discussed it sensibly then, whereas now the money is due and there's no time for sensible discussions - which presumably is what she was banking on in leaving it until the last second. And to reiterate - I would be happy to give her £3000 without reservations, but I'm effectively giving him money too which I'm not happy about.

Anyway - she sent me a text saying "Sorry x", so I'll probably just send an email explaining I was trying to protect her because I love her, then give her a call later and find a way to give her the money. At the end of the day, she's my sister and I want her to be happy, and I don't want to damage our relationship over money.

elvis86

meritaten wrote: »

I probably disagree with some when I say if the money is a GIFT to your sister then a gift is a gift and you should have no say in how your sister uses it. a LOAN is a different matter - its ok to impose conditions on that.
I understand how you feel - but you have to trust your sister and thats prob why she went off at you - I know exactly what you have been accused of - been there done that! trying to protect my little sister, and I DO see her point of view! it can be taken as being controlling! phone her hun, and try to grovel while making her see the sense of your conditions! you obviously love her - just tell her that and how scared you are for her! worked for me! my sis and I are still on best of terms

You've got to be kidding, surely? Why on earth should the OP grovel? "Please, please, please let me give you £3000 towards your house deposit..."

I completely disagree with anyone who says that one cannot impose conditions when giving a gift of money. Of course you can! As others have said, if you gave someone money for something worthwhile and they blew it on something stupid, you'd have every right to be upset. And we're not talking £10 birthday money that a child has blown on sweets (though it sounds a lot like the OP is dealing with someone very childish), this is £3000 that the OP has no doubt worked hard for, and could spend on something lovely for herself if she wasn't generous enough to want to help out her little sister.

The little sis is not entitled to this money. If she doesn't agree to the (perfectly reasonable) conditions, she doesn't have to accept it. Simple. But she should've said this as soon as the conditions were explained to her, or at least as soon as she decided that she wasn't happy with them.:cool:

What she has blatantly done now is leave it until the last minute, hoping to blackmail big sis into giving her the money anyway. And from the sounds of the OP's last post, I fear that she will get her way. Very manipulative and most ungrateful.

Ivrytwr3

Very nice thing to do and very practical minded too regarding the boyfriend. Just a suggestion, but you are the old, wise one (hee hee!). So how about taking the pressure of your sister and invite them both around to yours tonight, or asap.

Explain to them both how much you love them, they make a wonderful couple and you wish them all the best for the years to come, which is why you are trying to help them.

But! As the wise and old one, you have seen relationships/marriages break up, so it does happen. With that in mind the only condition you have with regards to the gift is that heavens forbid something does happen, your little sister will be able to get the money back.

And as you aren't going to be splitting up then it should not be a problem agreeing to this.

(young love!)

Ivrytwr3

or you could print off/show your sister this thread so she can see people's opinions.

NAR

Big sister looking after wee sister makes perfect sense to me. You are older and wiser and know the potential pitfalls - you are not saying he will turn out to be a bad egg. However should that happen at least wee sister will have a measure of protection - why should the BF object to that?