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Ping : Colin @ ScottishPower - comment welcome from others reading this !
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Richie-from-the-Boro
Posts: 6,945 Forumite
in Energy
I've been quite content over the period of time I've been with SP. However I'm confused about the information told to me two days ago by your ' call back ' person. I wonder therefor if you could clarify for me the following two same questions I asked on that day.
Q.1. Am I on the most cost effective tariff, and if not can you arrange for me to be put on the most cost effective tariff ?
Q.2. What is the average projected % increase in price per annum after the increase on 1st March compared to my current price ?
The history behind the two question
I spoke to your ' ring back ' person two days ago and asked what the overall % increase would be from the 1st March 2011 compared to my current pricing structure and was, after checking with someone else I told it would be an overall 14.3%. I have a problem with this 14.3% figure :
- if my daily service charge rises from 16.840ppd rises to 26.900ppd that's a rise of +59.73%
- if my daytime kWh rises from 9.876p .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .to 11.231p that's a rise of ..+13.72%
- if my night-time kWh rises from 4.816p .. .. .. .. .. .. .to 5.596p that's a rise of ...+16.19%
Im not sure how your company computed the aggregate rise of 14.3%pa, but [ at its simplest ] if I add the three above % figures and divide by three it comes out at 29.88% which is nowhere near the 14.3% quoted by your representative.
N.B. No issues with your phone jockey with whom I spoke, the phone person was very nice and did everything to help.
Q.1. Am I on the most cost effective tariff, and if not can you arrange for me to be put on the most cost effective tariff ?
Q.2. What is the average projected % increase in price per annum after the increase on 1st March compared to my current price ?
The history behind the two question
I spoke to your ' ring back ' person two days ago and asked what the overall % increase would be from the 1st March 2011 compared to my current pricing structure and was, after checking with someone else I told it would be an overall 14.3%. I have a problem with this 14.3% figure :
- if my daily service charge rises from 16.840ppd rises to 26.900ppd that's a rise of +59.73%
- if my daytime kWh rises from 9.876p .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .to 11.231p that's a rise of ..+13.72%
- if my night-time kWh rises from 4.816p .. .. .. .. .. .. .to 5.596p that's a rise of ...+16.19%
Im not sure how your company computed the aggregate rise of 14.3%pa, but [ at its simplest ] if I add the three above % figures and divide by three it comes out at 29.88% which is nowhere near the 14.3% quoted by your representative.
N.B. No issues with your phone jockey with whom I spoke, the phone person was very nice and did everything to help.
Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
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Comments
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No-one can answer the question without knowing how you distribute the day and night units (and how many of them you use).
Your estimate is even more outlandish than the quote suggested. I'd guess you are talking a 17 to 18% increase for a typical electricity-only user.0 -
You asked for the average figure, so presumably SP provided an average figure.
It's highly unlikely you are an average user. Is anyone? The average, for example, may be the average over all users on your tariff, etc.
I guess what you actually want to know is the actual increase you will incur. That would need to be calculated specifically basd on your particular situation. The supplier is not obliged to calculate that, but may do. Alternatively, you could calculate it yourself.
You would need to work out the annual cost based on pre-increased prices, the cost based on post increased prices and then work out the difference.
Can I ask what exactly do you want the figure for? The supplier should be able to advise you of the annual cost of energy based on your current tariff (that is included on the annual statement) and may opt to tell you how you could reduce your annual expenditure again based on current usage.
Or use a comparison site. That will tell you how much your usage will cost not only on your existing tariff, but on all generally available traiffs from the whole of the market. Your supplier won't tell you that, only at best the traiffs they supply.
Edit: your attempt at simplifying the calculation only works if the standing charge, daytime usage and low rate usage are all equal costs. (and there are no other elements making up the final price)"Now to trolling as a concept. .... Personally, I've always found it a little sad that people choose to spend such a large proportion of their lives in this way but they do, and we have to deal with it." - MSE Forum Manager 6th July 20100 -
No-one can answer the question without knowing how you distribute the day and night units (and how many of them you use).
Your estimate is even more outlandish than the quote suggested. I'd guess you are talking a 17 to 18% increase for a typical electricity-only user.
- the fact of the matter is .. .. they ' Scottish Power ' can .. .. at the push of a keyboard button they were happy to give me the figure of 14.3 %
- - - just because I was given the figure of 14.3% by a phone jocky in a busy cacophonous call centre does not mean it was correct, I would like it double checked please
- - - its precisely this figure of ' an average cost [ not consumption ] increase I disagree with
- your average householder [ me included ] will find this incredibly complex as its not reducible to simplistic comparisons, hence contacting the provider
- - - and that complexity and confusion will be gerrymandered by design, all energy / telephone & ISP's do it to defeat comparison , its normal business practice
You can put day / night distribution figures into and comparison site, most however [ I checked four sites yesterday ] give the default as 55% / 45%Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ0 -
Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »- the fact of the matter is .. .. they ' Scottish Power ' can .. .. at the push of a keyboard button they were happy to give me the figure of 14.3 %
- - - just because I was given the figure of 14.3% by a phone jocky in a busy cacophonous call centre does not mean it was correct, I would like it double checked please
- - - its precisely this figure of ' an average cost [ not consumption ] increase I disagree with
- your average householder [ me included ] will find this incredibly complex as its not reducible to simplistic comparisons, hence contacting the provider
- - - and that complexity and confusion will be gerrymandered by design, all energy / telephone & ISP's do it to defeat comparison , its normal business practice
You can put day / night distribution figures into and comparison site, most however [ I checked four sites yesterday ] give the default as 55% / 45%
Are you joking? One minute people complain about two tier tariffs and scream for daily standing charges the next minute the same group are protesting that 'simpler' structure.
I know of no comparison site that does not allow you to enter your day/night distribution.
There is a problem with single suppliers having multiple tariffs. The structure of the tariffs is not a problem. Any consumer who is foxed by the current two structures in tariffs would be even more foxed (and swindled and subjected to unfairness) by an alternative.
Or do you have a magic bullet?0 -
Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »- the fact of the matter is .. .. they ' Scottish Power ' can .. .. at the push of a keyboard button they were happy to give me the figure of 14.3 %
- - - just because I was given the figure of 14.3% by a phone jocky in a busy cacophonous call centre does not mean it was correct, I would like it double checked please
- - - its precisely this figure of ' an average cost [ not consumption ] increase I disagree with
- your average householder [ me included ] will find this incredibly complex as its not reducible to simplistic comparisons, hence contacting the provider
- - - and that complexity and confusion will be gerrymandered by design, all energy / telephone & ISP's do it to defeat comparison , its normal business practice
You can put day / night distribution figures into and comparison site, most however [ I checked four sites yesterday ] give the default as 55% / 45%
Why don't you put your query in writing to SP.
Be specific about exactly what information you want.
Clearly from the information you have given there cannot be a 14.3% rise UNLESS the discount structure has changed or you and the SP operator are not singing from the 'same hymn sheet'.0 -
You asked for the average figure, so presumably SP provided an average figure.
It's highly unlikely you are an average user. Is anyone? The average, for example, may be the average over all users on your tariff, etc.
I guess what you actually want to know is the actual increase you will incur. That would need to be calculated specifically basd on your particular situation. The supplier is not obliged to calculate that, but may do. Alternatively, you could calculate it yourself.
You would need to work out the annual cost based on pre-increased prices, the cost based on post increased prices and then work out the difference.
Can I ask what exactly do you want the figure for? The supplier should be able to advise you of the annual cost of energy based on your current tariff (that is included on the annual statement) and may opt to tell you how you could reduce your annual expenditure again based on current usage.
Or use a comparison site. That will tell you how much your usage will cost not only on your existing tariff, but on all generally available traiffs from the whole of the market. Your supplier won't tell you that, only at best the traiffs they supply.
Edit: your attempt at simplifying the calculation only works if the standing charge, daytime usage and low rate usage are all equal costs. (and there are no other elements making up the final price)
- I'm long retired and have used E7 for three decades, as a single man i was prolly 80/20 distribution, I'm now prolly 50/50 [ ish] most comparison sites show 55/45
- yes I want to know the actual increase I will incur from their change to my charges [ not consumption ], they will already know that to 12 decimal places
- - - my example, I pay an average of £XXpm DD for the 2010-2011, how much will the average rise to per month in 2011-2012 assuming no rise in consumption
Comparison
- SP have a ' Daily Service Charge ' which is applied to a region, no other company that I'm aware of have this charge
- - - its difficult to compare when others don't have this charge. This charge went up a cathedral sized 59.73%
- - - fundamental question, what is a service charge ? I mean what additional service are they charging for that other suppliers do not ?
- - - why is applied by region, I assume its (1) the ' carrier ' of their product
- - - why is applied by region, I assume its (2) marketing discount applied then withdrawn by region
- - - why is applied by region, I assume its (3) applied when SP have a lot of competition by region, and removed when they have little competition
- - - fundamental question, SP when I looked last night had 27 different names for their product, no where on my account does it say what my product name is
- - - how can anyone compare [ not by accident ] an apple with a pear
No I have no paperwork at all other than a written contract when I first joined SP years ago. That was 3 or more different 18 month cycles with different ' plan names ' and pricing structures.
In fairness to SP they have been great up to this point, I just wish they would be a lot more transparent with those few very specific bits of info needed to make a comparison.
Am I asking too much ?Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ0 -
Are you joking? One minute people complain about two tier tariffs and scream for daily standing charges the next minute the same group are protesting that 'simpler' structure.
I know of no comparison site that does not allow you to enter your day/night distribution.
There is a problem with single suppliers having multiple tariffs. The structure of the tariffs is not a problem. Any consumer who is foxed by the current two structures in tariffs would be even more foxed (and swindled and subjected to unfairness) by an alternative.
Or do you have a magic bullet?
Can you even read, I've got a couple of spare Janet & John books belonging to my grand-kids I can lend you ?
Are you the trainee troll in this group ? or are you just conditioned to getting your own way down here by shouting out of context nonsense?. Please stay on subject in this thread, and try to read and absorb the information before kicking your radionuclide keyboard into gear.
I said "" You can put day / night distribution figures into and comparison site "" - you say "" I know of no comparison site that does not allow you to enter your day/night distribution ""
I did not complain about ' about two tier tariffs ' there have always been two or more tiers, you can not have E7 without these tiers. Goodness me KimYeovil, please read what people post
I have neither a magic bullet nor the ballistic means to launch that projectile, but I can read and understand what's written. :beer:Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ0 -
Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »I did not complain about ' about two tier tariffs ' there have always been two or more tiers, you can not have E7 without these tiers. Goodness me KimYeovil, please read what people post
Rubbish. Your first post details a single tier structure. E7 tariffs use either two tier or daily standing charge single tier structures for their day units. The night units is not an additional 'tier'.0 -
Why don't you put your query in writing to SP.
Be specific about exactly what information you want.
Clearly from the information you have given there cannot be a 14.3% rise UNLESS the discount structure has changed or you and the SP operator are not singing from the 'same hymn sheet'.
- yes friend, I have arranged yet a~n~other call with SP on Monday, but was hoping Colin @ ScottishPower could give an opinion before my phone call.
- call centres no matter how helpful have limited info and limited discretion and individual customer calls are driven by the ' time thermometer ' on the screen
- hymn sheet, I gave full disclosure in #1 so that anyone can break down the figures I was given, the first figure are fact, I've taken them on a cut an paste from my account sheet :
From - 16.840ppd / 9.876p / 4.816p To - 26.900ppd / 11.231p / 5.596p
- what they rise to in #1 were given to me over the phone, and yes I'm very careful to transpose them accurately
- as stated reducible comparisons between providers are difficult, but my real issue is I need to be persuaded that 14.3% is an aggregate of the above increases
- you see its an imperfect world, for example the call centre may have asked someone with the cerebral equivalence of KimYeovil to make that calculation
Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ0 -
Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »- I'm long retired and have used E7 for three decades, as a single man i was prolly 80/20 distribution, I'm now prolly 50/50 [ ish] most comparison sites show 55/45...
As already mentioned, most/all comparison sites allow you to change this to suit your actual usage.
If it makes things easier for you, tell me all the details of your previous prices of your tariff (discounts, unit charges, tier 1 threshold/standing charges, etc) and your usages in kWh (including split of day:night in whatever fashion you prefer).
Then tell me the same details of your revised prices (you have this as you worked out some percentage differences)
As a one off favour, I'll then tell you how much more you'll have to pay with the increased prices. It ain't rocket science, and with this computer in front of me, it won't involve much mental dexterity at all.
(Please let me know your current tariff & supply region too - it's not absolutely necessary but will help to verify the figures involved
)
Edit:
I see you've already started with the pricing details (I presume you have only electricity):
Daily Standing charge: was 16.840ppd, now 26.900ppd
Day units/kWh: was 9.876p, now 11.231p
Night units/kWh: was 4.816p, now 5.596p
What I do still need is:
Day units used per year:
Night units used per year:
Details of any other charges or discounts, and whether they have changed due to the price change notice:
(and if you can advise tariff name & supply region that would be great) "Now to trolling as a concept. .... Personally, I've always found it a little sad that people choose to spend such a large proportion of their lives in this way but they do, and we have to deal with it." - MSE Forum Manager 6th July 20100
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