4 year old insomnia?? At my wits end!!

headcrash27

Thanks everyone for all the advice and support, it really helps to know i'm not alone in this. I have been onto amazon this evening and purchased a cd player and a roatating sheep night light that projects jumping sheep onto the wall (she is mad on sheep and i'm hoping that she might be persuaded to count them!). Thanks to feclmum as well for suggesting the relax kids cds. I've been on the website and they sound really good so i'm going to order one of those to try. I'm hoping when her new bed turns up that if she wants to come in with us i can then go into her bed (i can't at the moment as she only has a cotbed), my dh sleeps through most of it so it's not so much of a problem for him.

daveyjp

Dump the stairgate - locking a child up is never a solution and may be causing the anxiety and tantrums. Imagine if you were locked in and for example you needed the toilet, but couldn't get out - you'd be angry too.

Reward charts, lots of hugs when things are done well and positive messages - make her feel wanted, rather than confirming she is being naughty all the time.

minimoneysaver

I'm a single parent and I had horrid problems with my daughter sleeping when she was two. She was at nursery all day while I was at work, they promised me she wasn't sleeping (who knows), I ended up putting a portable DVD player at the end of her bed and she would watch Charlie & Lola (which just goes round & round all night) on it. It stopped her from coming into my room & waking me and i'm pretty sure she drifted off quite quickly between her sleep/wake episodes. Not everyones idea of a solution and I was even frowned upon, but my job meant that I had to be alert. She still occassionally wakes during the night and will put on a DVD quietly and drift back off. She's not bothering me or my neighbours (i'm in a terraced house) and she's well rested in the morning. I think that some children just don't need as much sleep, just like some adults don't. She's five now and doing fantastic. Reading age of 8.4 years can swim, dance etc, so it's not harmed her.

onlyroz

Have you tried bribery? E.g. she will get a small toy if she goes 3 nights in a row without disturbing you. Make up a chart and put stars on it each time she has a good night.

Indie_Kid

daveyjp wrote: »

Reward charts, lots of hugs when things are done well and positive messages - make her feel wanted, rather than confirming she is being naughty all the time.

I would also try not to make a big deal of her being naughty.

Triggles

My DS2 is 4yo and still doesn't sleep through the night. He has SNs (ASD, ADHD, plus some other things), and it affects his sleep patterns. He literally has nights where he is mostly awake from midnight until 5am, which is his usual wake up time. He generally sleeps okay from 7pm until midnight, wakes frequently between midnight and 5am, then is up at 5am for the day - although often he is awake anywhere after 3am for the day as well. He seems to function on this amount of sleep - and always has.
So I know where you're coming from - it can be exhausting!

First.. stair gates/safety gates. Up to you. A lot of it depends on what it is needed for. In our situation, DS2 NEEDS to have the safety gate on his door and the stair gate at the top of the stairs for his own safety. If your DD would get into things that would place her in danger while you were sleeping, then by all means, leave the gate in place until that particular issue is sorted. It's YOUR decision whether or not it's needed.

With DS2, we've tried to put things so that he can amuse himself if he wakes up in the night, but not too much IYSWIM. He cannot reach the overhead light in the room, but he has a safety torch (one that he cannot unscrew to get to the batteries) and he can turn that on to look at a book or glance around the room to reassure himself that everything is okay. Or occasionally wave it around flashing light in the room to amuse himself for short periods of time. :rotfl: The thing is - it's not horribly bright, the rest of the room is still dark, so still encouraging sleep, yet he will sit and look at a book if he wants to as well. He doesn't have to get out of bed to turn it on, thus getting out from the warm covers and walking across the room, risking waking him up even more. He has a couple books and toys by his bed that he likes to look at or play with at night if he wakes up. Again, nothing noisy or particularly active.

A cool (temperature-wise) room might encourage her to stay in bed. DS2 doesn't notice temperatures unless they are particularly extreme, so that's not really an option for us.

DS2 has a cd player with a number of children's cds that he can put on if he would like to listen to them. They are the same cds he listens to at night before he goes to bed, so it's music he associates with bedtime.

We do put DS2 in his room for timeouts if necessary, however, we don't say it's a timeout - it's his "safe place" to calm down and think about things. So we try to make it seem a bit more positive to allow him the time to calm down somewhere that he knows is "his" without anyone else bothering him for a short time. Actual bad behaviour timeouts are done downstairs, so there is no confusion.

I am thankful that we have a very understanding neighbour (either that or he has very poor hearing...) as DS2 can be quite loud and frankly telling him to quiet down is often pointless when he is in meltdown. He needs the time to vent and then calm down. We do talk to him about not making much noise at night and being considerate to others (like not waking up his 1yo brother!), but not really sure how much of it truly goes in and is processed.

You stated that your DD was referred to CAMHS. Has she actually been seen by them yet? Is this something they can advise you on?

happy35

my son was about 6 when he slept through the night but even then I used to ut him to bed at about 9pm and he would be up at 5am he just doesn't need much sleep. I don't think there is much you can do to make your daughter slee if she isn't tired.I did have a friend who used to tell her daughter that she wasn't allowed to get up until the clock said 7.00, before this she had to play quietly this was from about 4 or 5 year old

I don't need much sleep and would never lie in after about 5am when I was little so wasn't really surprised to have a son who is the same

headcrash27

She has now progressed from sleeping on the floor to coming into our bed, arrghh!! I wouldn't mind if she would just sleep but she climbs on me sits on me, jumps on me etc. There is nothing i can do to stop it as if i tell her off she just starts screaming and crying. I woke up this morning with crippling back ache from it all. I am just really hopeful that the cd player and light will work but i have my doubts.

headcrash27

Triggles wrote: »

My DS2 is 4yo and still doesn't sleep through the night. He has SNs (ASD, ADHD, plus some other things), and it affects his sleep patterns. He literally has nights where he is mostly awake from midnight until 5am, which is his usual wake up time. He generally sleeps okay from 7pm until midnight, wakes frequently between midnight and 5am, then is up at 5am for the day - although often he is awake anywhere after 3am for the day as well. He seems to function on this amount of sleep - and always has.
So I know where you're coming from - it can be exhausting!

First.. stair gates/safety gates. Up to you. A lot of it depends on what it is needed for. In our situation, DS2 NEEDS to have the safety gate on his door and the stair gate at the top of the stairs for his own safety. If your DD would get into things that would place her in danger while you were sleeping, then by all means, leave the gate in place until that particular issue is sorted. It's YOUR decision whether or not it's needed.

With DS2, we've tried to put things so that he can amuse himself if he wakes up in the night, but not too much IYSWIM. He cannot reach the overhead light in the room, but he has a safety torch (one that he cannot unscrew to get to the batteries) and he can turn that on to look at a book or glance around the room to reassure himself that everything is okay. Or occasionally wave it around flashing light in the room to amuse himself for short periods of time. :rotfl: The thing is - it's not horribly bright, the rest of the room is still dark, so still encouraging sleep, yet he will sit and look at a book if he wants to as well. He doesn't have to get out of bed to turn it on, thus getting out from the warm covers and walking across the room, risking waking him up even more. He has a couple books and toys by his bed that he likes to look at or play with at night if he wakes up. Again, nothing noisy or particularly active.

A cool (temperature-wise) room might encourage her to stay in bed. DS2 doesn't notice temperatures unless they are particularly extreme, so that's not really an option for us.

DS2 has a cd player with a number of children's cds that he can put on if he would like to listen to them. They are the same cds he listens to at night before he goes to bed, so it's music he associates with bedtime.

We do put DS2 in his room for timeouts if necessary, however, we don't say it's a timeout - it's his "safe place" to calm down and think about things. So we try to make it seem a bit more positive to allow him the time to calm down somewhere that he knows is "his" without anyone else bothering him for a short time. Actual bad behaviour timeouts are done downstairs, so there is no confusion.

I am thankful that we have a very understanding neighbour (either that or he has very poor hearing...) as DS2 can be quite loud and frankly telling him to quiet down is often pointless when he is in meltdown. He needs the time to vent and then calm down. We do talk to him about not making much noise at night and being considerate to others (like not waking up his 1yo brother!), but not really sure how much of it truly goes in and is processed.

You stated that your DD was referred to CAMHS. Has she actually been seen by them yet? Is this something they can advise you on?

I wish i could put the stairgate on but it just isn't an option with the neighbour. I know people think it's cruel but at the end of the day it was the only thing that was allowing me to get a good night's sleep and without it i am completely strung out during the day which isn't fair to her either.

When she saw CAHMS it was for her behaviour and anxieties. She also used to have a lot of little routines that were bordering on OCD. We were told to ignore negative behaviour and praise the positive. We do this and it works during the day to an extent but nothing works at night. We've been down the route of sticker charts and rewards etc but she just isn't interested. We have a gro clock that shows a moon during the evening and a sun when it's time to get up but she doesn't take any notice of it. I feel like i'm so stuck as anything i do in terms of discipline is going to involve her getting upset and i know this will hack the neighbour off.

Also i had a doctors appointment today and mentioned it to him but he was fairly dismissive and said there wasn't really anything that he could do.

Triggles

You cannot avoid disciplining your child simply because it will create noise that may annoy the neighbour. The neighbour will just have to deal with it. Sorry, but I do what is best for my child, and it that makes a bit of noise, the neighbour will need to learn to cope. I cannot stop living or let my child rule the roost simply to keep the quiet. Yes, it might be annoying or loud in the short term, but in the long term it's better for everyone. And yes, I know some people may not agree with letting there be some noise, but you can't tiptoe around your own home. It's just silly to be held hostage that way.

As far as your GP is concerned, they were fairly dismissive whenever we brought in concerns about DS2 as well, much to our paediatrician's disgust. I would call CAMHS back and ask their opinion. They may have some good advice for you on it. IME anything behavioural (unless it's extreme) seems to bypass many GPs.

Does your DH deal with some of her night-time wakings? Or is it always you? In order to make sure you are coping with it at your best, make sure you both take turns - maybe you one night and him the next - so that you get a good night's sleep at least every other night. Sleep deprivation will make even the most minor problem seem completely insurmountable - been there, done that!! LOL