4 year old insomnia?? At my wits end!!

Savvy_Sue

Dr Christopher Green in Toddler Taming suggests getting the neighbours on side by saying that you've been recommended to try a new technique which works by ... it will be difficult for the first week but should hopefully solve the problem.

However, it doesn't sound as if the whole controlled crying thing is working if she was keeping it up for hours.

I can see exactly where JoJo is coming from (and I was always awful company too!), but this is a very anxious child so the 'tough' approach may not be right at the moment. I'm sure if it was me I'd have the bed ready made up. I think mine came into bed with us more than I remember: they didn't disturb me as much as they did DH so he always took them back.

Kaz2904

Not sure if it is much help but DD always used to wake at night. She would come through to our bedroom and get into our bed which would then disturb us. When I was pregnant with DS space was very tight. She crawled in one night and woke me. Having reached the end of my tether I said very calmly (I'm amazed how calm I was actually and am still very proud of myself ) that she was perfectly welcome to sleep in our room but as she was such a big girl now it just wasn't possible to sleep in our bed as it was only made for 2. I put her on the floor and rolled back over to sleep. She moaned about being cold and I stirred and muttered about getting a blanket/ pillow which she did. She then settled down to sleep on our cooooooooold laminate floor. After about 30 seconds she was wanting to get into our bed and I reiterated the 2 person rule. She started whinging about being cold and uncomfortable and I said she could always go back to her lovely warm comfortable bed. In the end she did and she never really bothered us again.
When she's ill it's different. She came in one night last December with a raging temperature which was great because we had no heating in our room. 2 hours later I had sucked all the heat out of her and she woke up and asked if it was alright to go back to a warm bed (it was -10 outside!).
I think what cracked it initially though was the fact that I was so tired I wasn't moving and kept going back to sleep when she was trying to grizzle. Also the fact that DH didn't move over for her and DS was taking up the rest of the bed (I was like a whale!). It's not comfy or warm on a laminate floor

NickyBat

I had this for 5 years, every night my son would wake - never slept a whole night from the day he was born. Then i just started putting him back into his own bed, not speaking to him just taking him back and it took a while but eventually it worked.
he is 10 next week and for the last 5 years has slept 10-12 hours every night!!!

SkintGypsy

Perhaps a nice pair of earplugs for neighbour might help. You can ignore kids screaming if they aren't yours. If they are, not so much, although I do tend to wear mine if husband is on baby duty.

Bloomin_Freezing2

We put a dreamcatcher abouve dd1's bed as she she had a few bad dreams (she was 4 yrs old) she accepted it would take the dreams away and make her less anxious about falling asleep. She is a bit of a worry wort soalso has some worry dolls under her pillow. She read a book at school about worry dolls and decided she needed some. Maybe add a dream catcher for your daughter if she suffers from nightmares? I hope this sorts itself out asap, not getting enough sleep is awful.

Lunar_Eclipse

Oh gosh; I really feel for you.

It sounds like she might be a child that needs little sleep. My mum had a friend whose son only ever slept for 4 hours a night. He is still the same now that he is an adult; he's actually a doctor so is well suited to the long hours of his job. As a child of your daughter's age, I think he slept something like 10pm-2am daily, after which he occupied himself in his room with his 'night time toys'. He had completely different things to do during the night when he was awake: gentle story tapes, puzzles, colouring books, books etc and a softer light that he had on when awake at night. He always went through to his mum to say 'I'm awake' to which she basically replied in acknowledgment and off he went. He was exceptionally bright and excelled at school.

On a possibly more positive note, my eldest started sleeping longer at night once she started junior school, but always slept through. As a (newborn) baby, she never slept more than 10 hours in a 24 hour day, but started sleeping 11-12 hours/night from the age of 7 (which she still does at almost 11). I am convinced this is because she was challenged more intellectually; school became tiring once she had to start applying effort. My youngest was the child that woke in the night, but only for very brief periods. This stopped within 2 weeks of starting school!

So given my personal experience, I would try to significantly increase both her physical and mental daily excertion if you can. If she can't already read, I'd try that, along with swimming, cycling, tennis, playing in the park etc.

Lunar_Eclipse

headcrash27 wrote: »

She has always been quite anxious. She had to have surgery and a stay at great ormond street when she was 18 months and it made her really fearful and anxious for a long time. It has only been the last six months or so that her anxieties have started to improve.

Just seen this and think this is the problem. I would be the kind loving parent that she needs. Ask her is there are things you can do that will help, because she isn't doing it to upset you. She will want the refreshed, happy mummy the following day.

Have you tried leaving a light on? One of my children can't sleep with anything other than complete darkness, the other needs light as she is scared (& will wake us up) if she wakes up into darkness. I leave a hall light on and her door slightly ajar. She can actually sleep with her overhead bedroom light on! She's the one with the superb imagination and incredible creative writing skills, so there is an upside to being scared of the dark!;)

I also think this is a phase that will pass. Maybe you could offer to have a sleepover with her if she stays in her room for a few nights. I'd suggest a week max. My youngest also loves this so I do it a couple of times a year. It's no big deal to me, but is a very positive thing in her eyes in terms of our relationship. I sort of think it's odd but surprisingly ingenious at the same time.

JodyBPM

I think there are two issues here - one is the sleep issue, obviously. But the thing that most stood out to me was that fact that she is screaming and crying for hours in the middle of the night. That is a behaviour issue, surely? I have two children 4 and 6, and since a much, much younger age than 4, prolonged screaming or tantruming (at any time of the day or night) would have been a behaviour issue that would have been addressed with sanctions. Its one thing for her to wake up in the night, which is not her fault. But the behaviour that comes with it, the screaming and shouting, is totally unacceptable in my view, and at four she's plenty old enough to know the difference between acceptable and unacceptable behaviour.

What would your normal sanction be for dealing with screaming and tantrums during the day? Surely this should continue at night? I know its hard, because when you are tired its the last thing that you want to be dealing with, but rules don't change at night, surely.

I think your neighbour has every right to be upset at being woken every night - a four year old is old enough to be taught that making noise in the night is not acceptable.

Personally, I would accept the fact that she's not a good sleeper, and get some books out for her to look at if she wakes up during the night. And I tell her that if she wakes up, she is to quietly look at her books in bed. Shouting, screaming, coming into your room etc is all unacceptable, and there will be consequences to them (whatever your normal discipline routine is). If she doesn't like the quietness in the middle of the night, then perhaps a cd player with talking books would be good, too.

I think the behaviour issue is more problematic than the sleep one, tbh.

headcrash27

JodyBPM wrote: »

I think there are two issues here - one is the sleep issue, obviously. But the thing that most stood out to me was that fact that she is screaming and crying for hours in the middle of the night. That is a behaviour issue, surely? I have two children 4 and 6, and since a much, much younger age than 4, prolonged screaming or tantruming (at any time of the day or night) would have been a behaviour issue that would have been addressed with sanctions. Its one thing for her to wake up in the night, which is not her fault. But the behaviour that comes with it, the screaming and shouting, is totally unacceptable in my view, and at four she's plenty old enough to know the difference between acceptable and unacceptable behaviour.

What would your normal sanction be for dealing with screaming and tantrums during the day? Surely this should continue at night? I know its hard, because when you are tired its the last thing that you want to be dealing with, but rules don't change at night, surely.

I think your neighbour has every right to be upset at being woken every night - a four year old is old enough to be taught that making noise in the night is not acceptable.

Personally, I would accept the fact that she's not a good sleeper, and get some books out for her to look at if she wakes up during the night. And I tell her that if she wakes up, she is to quietly look at her books in bed. Shouting, screaming, coming into your room etc is all unacceptable, and there will be consequences to them (whatever your normal discipline routine is). If she doesn't like the quietness in the middle of the night, then perhaps a cd player with talking books would be good, too.

I think the behaviour issue is more problematic than the sleep one, tbh.

She has always had screaming fits, they used to last for an hour at a time which is why she was referred to CAMHS. The problem is she gets very angry and doesn't know how to control it. During the day if she has a tantrum like that she would be put in her room with her stairgate on for 4 minutes and then made to apologise, if she doesn't do this or the tantrum continues she goes back in her room. I can't do this at night time as she's already in her room with the gate on and she's screaming and shouting as she wants the gate taken off. She knows it's wrong to scream and shout at night, she was here when the neighbour came round and heard everything that was said, but she just doesn't care. When i tell her she will wake the neighbour she says she (the neighbour) should ignore her or go to work. She has an answer for everything. She isn't interested in reading or playing in her room. The only thing she wants to do is sing songs and make up games with her toys which involve talking and raising her voice.

I am going to try the cd player as that might help, i am thinking of recording myself reading some of her books so she can play that and feel close to me while i am asleep.

Counting_Pennies_2

I feel for your neighbour. It sounds like the disturbances in the night have gone on for some time.

Is your DD's bedroom next to hers? If so I would consider if it is possible to move your rooms around.

It is after all, very anti social for the neighbour, and I agree you should be looking to minimise the disruption to her.

In terms of solutions, she is now of an age you can be firm, and you can do bribes. Start with the first bribe being massive. The biggest, most special thing she has ever wanted, and say if she has managed to stay in her bedroom for the whole weekend (2 nights) she will get it. Then the next best thing, do for a week, and move down the scale.