ANOTHER Letter from Debt Collector..what to do?

phatbear

Hi,

Sorry I dont have time to read through this whole post as im on my way out, however my experiences of debt collecting agencies, and they have been numerous, is they rely on intimidation and bluff, hell if I'd kept every "we're coming to get ya letter" and every "we will be taking court action" letter I would be able to re-decorate my living room, of course my good lady would question my taste in interior decorating but shes like that.

If someone who claims to be owed money by you cannot provide the original credit agreement then the debt is not enforceable, and if you ask for a copy of said agreement and enclose your £1 fee and they dont provide it within a set time, normally 28 days or so, or tell you they have no claim against you then they will breaking the law.

The best metaphor to make you understand the situ is thus, if i knocked on your door and claimed you owed me £100 what would you do?? you'd ask me to prove you owe me the money, and if i couldnt prove it, what would you do, I bet it would contain some very choice language.

So fight the good fight and remember if any one says you owe them money first thing to do is ask them to prove it.

all the best

the bear

fuzzgun19

I asked for the credit agreement 18 days ago. This is what I sent -

November 10, 2006

Debt Managers Ltd.
PO Box 168
4 Jamaica Street
Edinburgh
EH3 6UP

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: − Ref Number 31281256/Client Ref: *****

With reference to the above, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this credit agreement.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

I also request that you provide me with a copy of the letter of enforcement from littlewoods; if you are acting on their behalf.

I understand this information should be supplied within 12 working days.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

My feeling is to wait and see, but then I'll be panicing again if we get another ''court letter'

Can they not say we admitted the debt, as we called them to make arrangements last week?

johnbrooks

And in reply you got a letter saying that they can't provide a copy so they have closed their file. What more do you want?

Nemisis_WOF

If they cannot provide a copy of the original signed agreement and statements of the account the debt is unenforceable end of story! NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS

Without the original documents or copies there of they cannot ask you for a penny even after you have made a telephone agreement and if they do, you can have them for harrasment.

Admitting the debt makes no difference in this case as they have no documentation to back up their claim, but i would not admit to it now anyway.

Thier letter states they have closed the files on the case as they have realised you know your rights and they now know they cannot chase you for it without the original documents.

Go out have a drink with that tenner and relax, you deserve it after all the worry about this.

They can't touch you and they know it.

fuzzgun19

Hi,

Have today received this which appears to be from Littlewoods.

Is this the credit agreement I was requesting?

nomoneytoday

So they still haven't supplied a copy of the original agreement. Therefore legally its unenforceable. Morally its a different issue. You borrowed £1300, and are morally obliged to pay it back, even in £10 installments.

How would you like it if someone failed to pay you back £1300 they had borrowed off you?

Nemisis_WOF

This is a credit agreement yes but it is a blank one and does not appear to have any referance to you on it.

Does the agents name and address that you have blanked out have any referance to you? If not then this document is irrelevant.

Can you confirm this is from Littlewoods or has the DCA sent it to you?

I would not make any payments for this as the DCA stated they have closed the file on this. It's an old debt that is unenforcable and no one is now chasing you for it, let it lie at that.

I would still go for that drink at this stage.

fuzzgun19

Nemisis_WOF wrote:

This is a credit agreement yes but it is a blank one and does not appear to have any referance to you on it.

Does the agents name and address that you have blanked out have any referance to you?

Hi,

Yes, The blanked out parts are hubbys name, address and account number.

And I assume its from Littlewoods, as their name & address is on the cover letter.

What now?

Nemisis_WOF

Ok here is how i see it. You asked the DCA for a copy of the original agreement but this should have been for a copy of the original signed agreement. In waiting for this you have recieved a letter from the DCA saying they cannot provide you with the original agreement as it is unavailable and have closed thier files on the case. So far so good as without the original signed agreement they can't do squat.

You have now recieved from Littlewoods an unsigned copy of the original agreement that could have been printed up yesterday by my 4 year old niece on my PC and still holds no wait.

Here is the catch, when asking for the original agreement you should always ask for a copy of the SIGNED agreement and a copy of the accounts statement showing the default date, most companies will oblige if it is available but they are legally allowed to send you an unsigned copy and can hold off on presenting the signed copy till they have actually sent you a court order, at which point the signed document and all other information needs to be available to both parties solicitors as proof of the claim on the debt and will need to be presented.

So thier is a chance that Littlewoods do still have the original signed copy in thier files, in which case you are still very liable for the debt since you have already made a previous arrangement with the DCA to pay £10 a month and thus addmitted the debt is yours and have now negatted the 6 year rulling for statute barred debt.

BUT don't go paying that £10 a month just yet.

The DCA has said they can't supply you with the original document and have closed thier files and the copy of the agreement sent to you by Littlewoods is a very basic copy that Littlewoods could print up at any time with anyones name on it.

I would say at this point (although it's not 100%, 99%ish) you are in the clear legally and should not make the arranged payment with the DCA.

Divert the cash to another debt or drink just now and play the waiting game, do nothing.

If you here from the DCA saying that you have not made the arranged payment just call them or write prefferably, and tell them that you had recieved thier letter saying that they had closed the case as they could not supply you with the agreement and as such you are not liable to make the arranged payment as they cannot legally enforce it.

I think i should state at this point what my views are on debt.

I do not condone the non payment of debt. If someone has deliberately taken out credit that they cannot repay or have just no intentions of paying it the they should be forced to pay it all back as that is just outright fraud.

But as with most of the people on these boards it has been an unforseen change of circumstance or just a plain genuine mistake on their behalf that has ended them up owing debt, we are only human.

The laws about debt are thier for both the credit companies to use to reclaim thier debt and for the debtor to be protected against unruely companies. If the debt has been made unenforcible by the 6 year Statute bar rule or due to the fact that there is no remaining documentaion to prove that you still owe outstanding monies then you should use that law to protect you.

If it is legally allowed not to pay it back for those and other reasons then that is the end of discussion as far as i am concerned, they have had 6 years to claim thier cash back or they should have kept thier documents in check.

Paying it back for moral reasons when you don't have to is not something i would do, as most people that have had this happen, learn a big enough lesson when thier circumstances changed to make them unable to pay the debt and will not be put in that situation again, also every body deserves a second chance.

And paying back that old debt could leave them scrimping and scraping for the money to repay it for many long unhappy years.

Learn the lesson, get on with your life, thats what i say.

Fuzzgun19, Wait and see if anything happens i don't think it will.

Keep us updated. Even if nothing does happen that's a good update in my opinion.

fuzzgun19

Thanks for your thoughts Nemisis.

This debt was from about 7-8 years ago. We had other debts, and it spiraled due to circumstances.

In 2001 we then turned to Baines & Ernst Debt Management (mistake, but we know now) in desparation, and they took the payments etc.

The Littlewoods debt was somehow passed to NDR (National Debt Recovery), not sure if they are part of littlewoods. NDR kept applying interest of about £30pm (we could only afford about £20pm), so the debt crept up.

When we finally came to our senses and ditched Baines & Ernst, I wrote to NDR and asked them for a copy of the credit agreement, to which we got no reply from NDR, but received the Littlewoods letter stating they 'were not pursuing this debt'

So after we received this letter we thought that NDR were just taking us for a ride and stopped paying. (to this day we STILL receive monthly statements from NDR showing the balance/no interest)

That was about 20 months ago.

A few months ago we got a 'court' letter from NDR, so we sent them a copy of the letter from Littlewoods and stated as far as we were concerned, the debt is now settled, and we wouldn't be making any payments (or words to that effect). We received no reply.

I think I will wait as you have suggested, and send them a letter when we receive the 'you havent paid' letter.

When it arrives, I will post my letter on here and hopefully someone can tell me if its suitable.

Many thanks for all your help so far guys!