Can you refuse job applications that the jobseekers set you up for?

mountainofdebt

yer_maw wrote: »

I wonder at what point it might click that simply forcing people to look harder for jobs in a recession isn't going to work.

I wonder at what point it might click with some people that they have to lower their standards when looking for a job.

Been there, read the book still wearing the t-shirt.

yer_maw

mountainofdebt wrote: »

I wonder at what point it might click with some people that they have to lower their standards when looking for a job.

Been there, read the book still wearing the t-shirt.

What so the country has full employment if everyone lowers their standards? utter rubbish, its a numerical impossibility that everyone can have work if only they look harder. Unemployment going from 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 doesn't suddenly mean 1,000,000 people are lazy.

Not to mention the fact that wages have stagnated or went down in the last 10 years while the cost of living has skyrocketed. The job centres tactics are ridiculous: meetings, advisors, training and forcing people to apply for jobs they clearly wont get does not an economy make. It just ticks boxes.

dugdale_2

Yes wages have stagnated and the cost of living has skyrocketed but what has that got to do with being unemployed ?

Are you saying that it's OK not to look for work because of the above facts? Are you suggesting that there should not be any training available for those unfortunate enough to be out of work? are you saying that unemployed people should not have to have advisory interviews as they are no use whatsoever? Are you saying that finding suitable vacancies for people that they may not previously been aware of is not required?

RacyRed

dugdale wrote: »

Yes wages have stagnated and the cost of living has skyrocketed but what has that got to do with being unemployed ?

Are you saying that it's OK not to look for work because of the above facts?

That is not what is being said. When full employment is not realistically possible what sense does it make to force skilled people into any old job, just to keep the statistics right? What happens when those skills are needed again? Our CVs have been wrecked by then.

1. You are taking jobs away from those for whom that work might be the best they can ever hope for.

2. If someone has studied and worked hard for most of their life then finds themselves out in the job wilderness for a while, pushing them into making major life style changes so that they can accept a minimum wage job is short-sighted and damages the economy in the long term.

3. When some jobs are available that are related to, but not the same as, someones skill set why are those people denied training for them?

Are you suggesting that there should not be any training available for those unfortunate enough to be out of work?

What training? For those newly unemployed and desperate for work there is no training. I know, I asked - repeatedly. I was told that if I remained unemployed for a long period then I could ask to be retrained as a fork lift truck driver (I was a 50+ year old woman at the time).

The training available is offered much too late in the process and the options appear to be very, very limited. Nor do the courses appear to be related to CURRENT vancancies.

Far too many of the training/external consulting offered is meaningless to the unemployed. The only purpose of some "courses" seems to be to provide suitable statistics and/or line the pockets of some of the conmen running them.

are you saying that unemployed people should not have to have advisory interviews as they are no use whatsoever?

No, the Job centre staff can be very good, even when they end up telling you they have never seen a single vacancy in the job centre for your type of work and you appear to be more aware of the potential work sources than they are.

Are you saying that finding suitable vacancies for people that they may not previously been aware of is not required?

Absolutely not.

In this recession there is a new breed of unemployed. Those who HAVE spent most of their lives being productive achievers and now find themselves without work. Unfortunately, job centre policies are not geared up at all for these people.

This is not the fault of the JC+ staff - most of the ones I came into contact with were good and helpful people who openly admitted that they despaired themselves that the system as it stood was destroying me and many like me.

After the last recession there were serious skill shortages in many areas of the economy because people with those skills had been driven into other work. When you have been forced to tip your whole life on its head and finally found some stability you are NOT going to flippantly risk that because your old backstabbing profession now decides that it really does need you after all.

So what is the best way forward? Is it to push people into any old job just to get them off JSA? Or take a serious look at what skills are likely to be required once the recovery starts and try to help posessors of those skills to find work which will enable them to revive those skills when they are required?

Sorry to those who are about to accuse me of being elitist, but tough, it took me years of really hard graft in my own time (working a full time job and studying evenings and weekends) to get the qualifications and experience I got. If you had done the same you would understand where I'm coming from.

yer_maw

@ dugdale Looks like you have entirely changed your argument entirely.

I wonder at what point it might click with some people that they have to lower their standards when looking for a job.

I answered this question, not the extra stuff you have just plucked out of thin air.

If you do lower your standards thats not exactly a guarantee that you are going to get a job is it? Furthermore, you should hold out for the best wage you can get because if you dont you will be massively struggling to save, pay off student loans and save for a house etc. £5.92 is a joke and its where the average has tended toward over the last 10 years when costs have risen dramatically. What sort of a time-bomb is this setting off?

Furthermore, to break into middle class professions requires a bit of luck, time and effort for those without a network of highly placed individuals who might want to do you a favour. Not to mention the travesty of those who can afford to do unpaid internships in london getting a massive boost compared to those who can't. People have paid a lot for education; forcing them into minimum wage jobs when its not a given they will even get interviewed doesnt fix the problem - it just puts them back at square one. Obviously if people are being ridiculous then they need a prod, but we are talking scientists etc here

As far as your new argument goes: of course people should get the support they need. But at the job centre you don't get support; you (to higher or lesser extremes) get derided. And you get derided because they think the key to getting a job is trying harder rather than accept we may be in a bit of a recession here and its not all YOUR fault.

To make a general point: There are going to be winners and losers for sure over the next 5 years, but lets not kick people when they are down, eh?

anoneemouse

dugdale wrote: »

Trying to get some people to actually look for a job would be a start.

DUGDALE

On this point (particularly in view of the fact that there just AREN'T the jobs out there anyway for those who are seeking work hard of themselves) - then what stance is taken regarding people who have been made redundant from a job after many years and are now in their 50's or 60's? I would hope that those who have decided to try and get another job would get just as much help in doing so as younger people. However - what about those in this agegroup who don't actually want to get another job anyway. Are people of 50 and over who don't want to get a job still harassed into asking for jobs - or is it tacitly accepted that "They will let you know if they really want a job - otherwise leave them alone now at their age"?

WhiteHorse

dugdale wrote: »

I then ask the customer if they're reliant on public transport as I need to know if they're willing and able to start work before public transport starts running or after it's finished.

The question is obviously connected to being 'able', but what does it have to do with being 'willing''?

WhiteHorse

shikoku wrote: »

A lot of staff at the job centres are also about to lose their jobs.

The biter bit? It's certainly a nice thought.

Unfortunately, the same people will find employment with the private companies that the government will hire to replace the Jobcentres when they close them down completely.

RacyRed

WhiteHorse wrote: »

The question is obviously connected to being 'able', but what does it have to do with being 'willing''?

Sounds like one of those questions where there are right and wrong answers.

Q. Are you willing and able to travel before public transport starts running?

Right answer: I'm willing but as I do not have my own transport I'm not able to. Gets JSA

Wrong answer: I'm not willing because I'm not able to if there is no public transport. Risks sanction

Get the difference?

dugdale_2

Sorry Yer_Maw but you've lost me completely with your last post. You posted


@ dugdale Looks like you have entirely changed your argument entirely.


Quote:
I wonder at what point it might click with some people that they have to lower their standards when looking for a job.

Check again, you've quoted from a post made by a different board member so I won't respond to the majority of your post as I believe that it wasn't aimed at me.

You then agree with me that jobseekers should get the support that they need, however I disagree that that support is not available through Jobcentre Plus. As I've mentioned previously on this thread I work at Jobcentre Plus and believe that I contribute much in helping my customers back into work. I don't know where else that support can come from, do you?
The Jobcentre uses many third parties for support in helping unemployed people back into work. Many are private organisations who cherry pick those closest to work as they're paid by results. I have a 23 year old customer on a methadone programme with a criminal record as long as your arm. No 3rd party organisation would touch her as they tell me they would be wasting their money on her as she'll never find work. She's currently in work after I and one of my colleagues spent many, many hours working with her to first identify the type of work that she would be capable of doing, identifying an employer who wouldn't dismiss her application out of hand and then preparing her for an interview and subsequently starting work. I can't think of any public sector organisation who would have taken her onto their caseload if anyone else can I'd appreciate it if you could pass me their details.

Yes the country is in a mess, people are losing their jobs but people are also getting back into work. I case load my customers into those looking for work for up to 13 weeks, between 13 weeks and 26 weeks, and those over 26 weeks and I'm sorry to say that I have seen very, very few people who've been unemployed for over 6 months find work. That isn't to say that they're not looking or don't have the right skills or experience, I have no proof however wonder if employers are saying "this person hasn't worked for 6 months, there must be something wrong with him / her so I'm not going to take a risk on them". I strongly believe that if anyone who's been out of work for 13 weeks or more should seriously consider any employment to avoid reaching the 6 months unemployment stage. I'm aware that that thought won't necessarily make me popular here but after seeing thre negative affects of being long term unemployed I believe it should be seriously considered.