Stolen Vodaphone I-Phone 4

SmudgeUK

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The problem with all this is that the police couldn't care less. It might be better for the OP's sanity just to consider the phone lost.

Why should i consider the phone lost when i know where it is, inside a apple retail store..................

NFH

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The problem with all this is that the police couldn't care less. It might be better for the OP's sanity just to consider the phone lost.

That's a remarkably defeatist approach, especially when the OP is so close to getting his stolen property back, and not a helpful comment.

My guess is that it is common practice for criminals to exchange stolen iPhones (and probably other phones) under warranty in order to acquire a new phone that has (almost) no connection with the crime. This is akin to money laundering, whereby banks and financial institutions have a duty to carry out due diligence to prevent criminal funds from being exchanged for clean funds. Given the likelihood that this iPhone-laundering is common practice, Apple likewise has a duty to carry out due diligence to ensure that iPhones returned to Apple stores under warranty are not stolen. If Apple does not carry out such due diligence (particularly if it is evident that the IMEI number is blocked which may itself be the "fault"), then their employees could be charged with handling stolen goods under Section 22 of the Theft Act 1968.

gjchester

Nostromo wrote: »

Its about time some laws were brought in for this kind of theft.Its happening more and more especially with high value iphones.These companys just pass the buck and send you round in circles.If you end up buying a phone that becomes blocked what exactly are you supposed to do with it ? Keep it ,sell it, phone the networks ask if its theirs,hand it in to police ive no idea.Im pretty sure most will say hand it in to the police but you can safely say if you do that you will never see the phone or your money again ...catch 22.
Sorry OP sympathise with you mate.

What exactly though? The laws are already in place for handling stolen goods, in this case the blame lies with Apple for not checking the IMEI, Apple are not a small fly by night operation.

If you buy a high end phone from "a bloke in the pub" for £50 you surely must know that it's not fully legit. Buy from a "traceable" source and you have some comeback, if you buy a cheap iPhone it's almost certainly going to be a nicked one.

Common sense should be applied and remember the old adage "If it's too good to be true it usually is."

Nostromo

The current laws dont work not in the OPs case as the phone is in an Apple store and he cant get hold of it.Whoever bought his phone paid £450 a normal used price not cheap.The buyer knew what he was doing exchanging it for a new phone.So now its up to Apple whether they do the right thing or not.

NFH

Nostromo wrote: »

The current laws dont work not in the OPs case as the phone is in an Apple store and he cant get hold of it.

The police can get hold of it if they investigate a possible offence by Apple store employees under Section 22 of the Theft Act 1968.

Nostromo wrote: »

The buyer knew what he was doing exchanging it for a new phone.

The OP didn't state whether it was the thief or the buyer who exchanged it for a new phone. My guess is that it was the thief for the reason I stated above.

gjchester

Nostromo wrote: »

The current laws dont work not in the OPs case as the phone is in an Apple store and he cant get hold of it.

They do work.

Apple are aware they have it, so are the police. Apple have a responsibility to return it now they know it stolen.

Theft act states:

A person handles stolen goods if (otherwise than in the course of stealing), knowing or believing them to be stolen goods he dishonestly receives the goods, or dishonestly undertakes or assists in their retention, removal, disposal or realisation by or for the benefit of another person, or if he arranges to do so.

Apple may not have know they were stolen at the time although they should have checked. They are now. Hence they are now stolen goods and need to be returned either to the OP if he produces evidence of ownership or the police.

Apple WILL have a procedure in place to handle this, they need to know it's followed so they don't give it to the wrong person. The OP has the documentation, presumable a Crime Ref,and just needs to send it off. Apple HAVE said the OP needs to write to Cork, not surprising as thats there EU base. If the OP or the police provides the documentation then, and they probably store all the details of what phone is where they will need to follow the law and return the phone, it's only the OP who suspects Apple may not.

jayme1

NFH wrote: »

The OP didn't state whether it was the thief or the buyer who exchanged it for a new phone. My guess is that it was the thief for the reason I stated above.

my guess it was the buyer that had it exchanged since the buyer had already called the OP through one of his contacts and the phone had the OPs photos on it, if the theif had had it exchanged then the buyer would have got a blank phone.

it is pretty obvious in my mind that the theif sold it to the buyer who called the OP saying they will return the photos, at which point the OP has to call vodafone again because their (vodas) incompetence didnt block the IMEI, at which point the buyer is left with a dead iphone they then take it into be replaced, which gives them a refurb phone without a blocked IMEI.

so basically I would easily say it is completely 100% apples fault for even alowing an IMEI phone to be exchanged esp without proof if ownership, or without contacting the network that blocked the phone.

Orrin

It could have been a lot worse, at least the phone has turned up and should be returned to you eventually. You may have to jump through a few hoops with Apple's head office, but the bottom line is that as long as you can prove that it's your property then legally they have to give it back to you.

SmudgeUK

I now have further information.

The buyer actually took the phone into the store, with a apparent terminal fault, the police also found out that the phone has also been destroyed, and they have told apple to need to make sure this phone is destroyed and if not they want the phone for evidence, to check to see if any data can be retrieved off the handset.

I hope that apple has now had the common sense to block the second Imei number that the guy was issued with, he wasnt given a refurb phone but a brand new one in the box.

I spoke to Apple Customer relations, who today told me once again they cannot deal with me, and only the police can instigate anything further.

So now i have to wait and see what the police come back with, and i presume if they cant return the phone then i will have no choice but to issue a small claims against apple.

Apple have admitted it shouldnt have happened, and also that my imei number was on vodaphones blacklist.

Orrin

Looks like I spoke too soon then

I still think you have a good chance of getting a replacement phone from Apple though, particularly as they have admitted that the IMEI was blacklisted at the time they took possession of the phone. Definitely write to their head office and consider making a fuss (and more importantly making Apple aware you are going to make a fuss) with people like watchdog, trading standards, ofcom etc. as they should have checked if it was stolen when they exchanged it.