MMR & autism Not just bad science but also falsified

poet123

donteatthat wrote: »

Well as long as your kids are alright to hell with everyone else. What the immunocompromised people who your healthy kids could very well have have passed the disease on to?

There is little I can do about that, those same immunocompromised people could be equally affected by the common cold or flu or chicken pox, none of which we have routine mass childhoods vax for.

I can only do what I believe to be the best thing for my children, and let you do the same for yours.

Nicki

poet123 wrote: »

There is little I can do about that, those same immunocompromised people could be equally affected by the common cold or flu or chicken pox, none of which we have routine mass childhoods vax for.

I can only do what I believe to be the best thing for my children, and let you do the same for yours.

I wonder though what psychological effect it would have on your child if one of their schoolmates with CF or another immune condition died as a consequence of catching measles, mumps or rubella from them, or if a childcare or teacher gave birth to a disabled child due to being exposed to their rubella? There are a couple of CF children in my DS's school and their whole class are very concerned for their wellbeing and are distraught if anyone in the class so much as sneezes due to the risks to these children. If someone caused them to die, due to not being immunised when there was no medical reason why they should not, it would cause a huge impact.

verysillyguy06

I have lived with hundreds of people who did not have the vacciantion and we still had ' measle' parties. No serious complication has occurred but again I would not make that recommendation . Every parent has to decide themselves really

verysillyguy06

Nicki wrote: »

I wonder though what psychological effect it would have on your child if one of their schoolmates with CF or another immune condition died as a consequence of catching measles, mumps or rubella from them, or if a childcare or teacher gave birth to a disabled child due to being exposed to their rubella? There are a couple of CF children in my DS's school and their whole class are very concerned for their wellbeing and are distraught if anyone in the class so much as sneezes due to the risks to these children. If someone caused them to die, due to not being immunised when there was no medical reason why they should not, it would cause a huge impact.

In contrast then if you would read about a child that had the bad luck of being affected by a vaccination is a needed risk and you would feel quite ok with this?

poet123

Nicki wrote: »

I wonder though what psychological effect it would have on your child if one of their schoolmates with CF or another immune condition died as a consequence of catching measles, mumps or rubella from them, or if a childcare or teacher gave birth to a disabled child due to being exposed to their rubella? There are a couple of CF children in my DS's school and their whole class are very concerned for their wellbeing and are distraught if anyone in the class so much as sneezes due to the risks to these children. If someone caused them to die, due to not being immunised when there was no medical reason why they should not, it would cause a huge impact.

Being vaccinated does not give 100% protection against Measles, being unvaccinated does not mean you will get measles. Neither are a given.

Any child with an underlying condition is at risk from many and varied infections, if that child is in education, or even leaves the house they are at risk.

In the light of that, (and although we would feel very sorry) my child would not feel guilt nor would I, we can only do what we feel is right for our own children.

If for example you had your child vaccinated in good faith and with your obvious beliefs in that vaccine, and later down the line you discovered that the vaccine had lead to a life altering condition, would you feel guilt? or would you believe that you had done as you thought best at that time?

Using judgemental emotive language and constructing unlikely scenarios rather than taking account of the actual stats;)rarely achieves the desired result;) and to try to pass your "perceived"guilt to a child is a little below the belt imo.

If guilt exists then it exists on both sides of the equation if an intoward event occurs.

Nicki

verysillyguy06 wrote: »

In contrast then if you would read about a child that had the bad luck of being affected by a vaccination is a needed risk and you would feel quite ok with this?

As the parent of a severely disabled child myself obviously I would be very sorry to learn if anyone's child had also been diagnosed with a disability. My understanding and belief however is that no actual scientific link has been found between mar and autism, so whilst I would be sorry to learn the child had been diagnosed and would support the parent whatever they thought the cause for this was, in the absence of proper evidence I personally would not feel the fact of vaccination was relevant.

melancholly

poet123 wrote: »

Where have I said I give Wakefield credence?

i guess i assumed that you had to.... since no-one else has produced ANY evidence of a concerning link.... it does seem that you do not trust any evidence against a link, despite the source though.

so does that mean that you're basing your opinion on an absolute lack of any scientific evidence (legal cases aside - if it isn't published in a peer reviewed journal, with clear methods and statistics so that other people can interrogate the results, then it's very difficult to judge it fairly)? i'm surprised.

it's actually a sad state of how modern medical science is viewed tbh, and perhaps i understand why to a degree, but taking a few legal cases are more representative of 'the truth' than a decade of good quality research is a shame....

but i am very glad that public health decisions are made by people looking at hard evidence from science, rather than hunches. removing the emotion from the situation is important so that all sides can be weighed up. in this debate, it's fair to say that both sides can't really appreciate the data that the other side presents - it's deadlock!

Nicki

poet123 wrote: »

Using judgemental emotive language and constructing unlikely scenarios rather than taking account of the actual stats;)rarely achieves the desired result;) and to try to pass your "perceived"guilt to a child is a little below the belt imo.

If guilt exists then it exists on both sides of the equation if an intoward event occurs.

Which bit of my language was judgmental or emotive in your view? You posted a view which was that so long as your child was ok, you cared not a jot for the children who could not be vaccinated due to underlying health conditions. That's fairly brutal language itself. Is it not valid to explore whether you and your children would genuinely hold such a selfish viewpoint if the consequences fell on someone known well to them, rather than an anonymous hypothetical risk?

verysillyguy06

Nicki wrote: »

As the parent of a severely disabled child myself obviously I would be very sorry to learn if anyone's child had also been diagnosed with a disability. My understanding and belief however is that no actual scientific link has been found between mar and autism, so whilst I would be sorry to learn the child had been diagnosed and would support the parent whatever they thought the cause for this was, in the absence of proper evidence I personally would not feel the fact of vaccination was relevant.

I have not talked about autism pers e...the vaccination in a rare case can cause encephalitis as well as cause other problems. I have been told that those cases are well documented on the other thread by my 'scientific' colleagues but strangely enough no-one can give me any links to it

Nicki

verysillyguy06 wrote: »

I have not talked about autism pers e...the vaccination in a rare case can cause encephalitis as well as cause other problems. I have been told that those cases are well documented on the other thread by my 'scientific' colleagues but strangely enough no-one can give me any links to it

I haven't read the other thread, and as this one is about autism and mmr, I assumed that's what we were discussing. I personally haven't heard of anyone who doesn't vaccinate due to a fear of encephalitis, so don't feel able to explore that argument any further at the moment!