MMR & autism Not just bad science but also falsified

donteatthat

Nicki wrote: »

Sorry I don't understand what you mean by this post. Your post which I replied to claimed that the legal test for medical negligence was beyond reasonable doubt. It isn't. It is always "balance of probability" which means 51% unless a specific direction is given that a more stringent percentage should be applied, which tends only to happen where criminal allegations are being made in a civil action. The judgment wouldn't refer to the burden of proof, unless it was different to the normal civil standard usually applied.

I don't agree with your views, and it is clear that although you justify them by reference to some litigation that you don't have the legal expertise to enable you to understand how the legal process works. I suspect that the same applies to your medical analysis.

Neither the legal knowledge or the medical knowledge. Poet123 you are too hilarious if not dangerous in your logic. But vaccine rates will keep dropping in this country due to people like you and more and more children will suffer because of it.

patchwork_cat

I always feel that people have lost the argument when they start 'bad mouthing' the opposite side in a discussion, which is what this is, a discussion! Neither side is going to agree as if they are parents they have to justify their descion be that what it may. I gave up earlier when another poster said some Dr's make bad scientists! So if you do not agree with someone they are a bad scientist! Give up Poet you will not convice them as they know best.

As a scientist one of the first questions I always ask is who has funded this research or what pressure is being brought to bare?

poet123

donteatthat wrote: »

Neither the legal knowledge or the medical knowledge. Poet123 you are too hilarious if not dangerous in your logic. But vaccine rates will keep dropping in this country due to people like you and more and more children will suffer because of it.

In my opinion those who blindly accept data which has been produced by those who are not impartial are dangerous too. One of the main proponents of the MMR has a patent on the vaccine (Paul Offit) how impartial can he be relied upon to be?

Is it my logic which has meant cases won in court on MMR causation? Is it my logic which sees $$$ being paid out for vaccine damage? is it my logic which sees cases win on appeal?

Those are facts, not contentions.

No, for logic or lack of it, you need to look closer to home perhaps,

patchwork_cat wrote: »

I always feel that people have lost the argument when they start 'bad mouthing' the opposite side in a discussion, which is what this is, a discussion! Neither side is going to agree as if they are parents they have to justify their descion be that what it may. I gave up earlier when another poster said some Dr's make bad scientists! So if you do not agree with someone they are a bad scientist! Give up Poet you will not convice them as they know best.

As a scientist one of the first questions I always ask is who has funded this research or what pressure is being brought to bare?

I agree, the mark of someone who has lost the argument is when they sink to insult rather than evidence.

melancholly

poet123 wrote: »

In my opinion those who blindly accept data which has been produced by those who are not impartial are dangerous too.

if that's your main concern, then that makes the Wakefield data the top of the list of what should be ignored!

[Deleted User]

patchwork_cat wrote: »

I gave up earlier when another poster said some Dr's make bad scientists! So if you do not agree with someone they are a bad scientist!

I believe that was me, and its from experience in a academic research setting. We would commonly aim to make our software 'doctor proof' as they tended to also be the least technical of the people in the department.

When i was doing my degree, i had a module on 'human genetic disease' .. i had rather big complex detailed genetics book, but i just wanted 'learn what i needed to know'.. so i went to find the medic's text books. They were far easier to digest and just contained the clinically relevant information.

Doctors are not trained to be scientists. They are trained to know medical information - big difference. Don't get me wrong, i've worked with some very very smart medics also. I've also spoon-fed plastic surgeons their experimental designs.

Medical Doctor != Scientist

I just don't see why people will base their opinion on one flawed, hoax paper, but ignore 10 years of papers stating the opposite. The 'belief' is almost religious in it's tenacity

poet123

melancholly wrote: »

if that's your main concern, then that makes the Wakefield data the top of the list of what should be ignored!

Where have I said I give Wakefield credence?

verysillyguy06

donteatthat wrote: »

Neither the legal knowledge or the medical knowledge. Poet123 you are too hilarious if not dangerous in your logic. But vaccine rates will keep dropping in this country due to people like you and more and more children will suffer because of it.

:rotfl::rotfl: Total rubbish actually...try and goggle up-takes on vaccines in London. go on, I dare you

poet123

pwllbwdr wrote: »

Ah - I misunderstood. You said "why pay out $$$$ without reason". The reason then is "because we lost the court case". Like all litigation.

Which would be unlikely unless sound medical evidence pointed to causation by vaccine (MMR) as indeed it was judged to do in the cited cases.

My point was that unless that state of affairs existed no payout would be forthcoming.

donteatthat

poet123 wrote: »

I didnt have my kids vaccinated with the MMR, my own decision was vinidicated by the outcome of their measles infection, it was mild and had no long lasting effects. You, I assume did vaccinate and are (I assume) equally happy with the outcome. I respect your choice, please accord me the same courtesy.

Well as long as your kids are alright to hell with everyone else. What the immunocompromised people who your healthy kids could very well have have passed the disease on to?

verysillyguy06

donteatthat wrote: »

Well as long as your kids are alright to hell with everyone else. What the immunocompromised people who your healthy kids could very well have have passed the disease on to?

I know hundreds of people that have not vaccinated their children....most of the Steiner Communities do not vaccinate