If push comes to shove...?

ceridwen

Kirri wrote: »

I am always happy for people to say something like that, normally it's hard to give spare veg away! People just want perfect shop veg I've found, and mine sometimes comes with free slugs or holes in!! Most people with an allotment have an excess or glut of something and are happy to share, I hate even wasting home grown stuff.

personally - I'd a darn sight rather have the odd bit of livestock damage to food if I knew I was getting food that was organic/fresh/with a bit of taste to it. Free is good as well - LOL..

What a shame you probably don't live anywhere near me:rotfl::rotfl:

ceridwen

Kirri wrote: »

Given the large amounts of obese people now I think there would be a public outcry if rationing were ever to be introduced these days, I really can't imagine people accepting it, even if there were no choice. The amount people buy and eat now is staggering and I find it rather sickening and largely it's not even nutritious food!

I tend to agree with you on that. I think many people have got very much into the mindset of "have a cake/packet of crisps/etc in between meals as a treat". Well - its not a treat if its commonplace...Many people simply don't even think of denying themselves anything (food or otherwise) and there is very much a mindset it seems of "I want - so I must have - and immediately".

I think there is an element of self-medication to a large extent too - ie "There's just been some hassle/aggro/etc in my life - so I'll have some food or drink to compensate for it".

I shall cough a bit guiltily here - as I am a moderate drinker - but most of the time I don't actually want that glass (or two) of wine I've just had and have deliberately thrown it down my throat as a way to "drown anxiety". I've found a couple of glasses of wine will drown out the "anxiety heebie-jeebies" until the next "attack" - I'm working on finding other ways to deal with them....:o

Davesnave

Ceridwen, I think there's a lot of wishful thinking in that first post. For whatever reason, you chose not to have children, but others did, and those kids are the guys who will be paying for your and my pensions shortly.

As regards "not accepting" any hypothetical future rationing on a per person basis, I would suggest that you'd have a problem selling your view to any future government that would need to take the bulk of the population with it regarding any restrictive measures it wished to impose.

As you say yourself:

"most people know/should have known this was coming and bearing in mind all the extra financial help families have benefitted from for many years at other peoples expense ....."

Yes, people have been encouraged through the tax/tax credits system to have more children and, as it was the government doing that encouragement, it's hard to argue how they also "should have known."

Davesnave

valk_scot wrote: »

Izal...yes, I remember that. And the newspaper!

I was thinking about something like reusable fabric "wipes" as well, made from squares of old t-shirts or similar. No worse than cloth nappies to wash I suppose. You get covered buckets to soak cloth nappies in. Have to say though that toilet paper and proper shampoo would stay high on my list of wants!

But....what do you soak them in? Are we talking biological washing powder here? And which is worst, washing powder of any kind, or flushing away a bit of (comfy!) toilet roll?

I know which my septic tank prefers!

Davesnave

Kirri wrote: »

Ceridwen, could you change supermarket? Which one do you use that prices like that? I now shop at Waitrose and it doesn't seem to offer loads of junk BOGOF's like some of the others so I prefer it. I don't like the shop but Asda are fairly good for now having much smaller packets of fresh veg available.

Given the large amounts of obese people now I think there would be a public outcry if rationing were ever to be introduced these days, I really can't imagine people accepting it, even if there were no choice. The amount people buy and eat now is staggering and I find it rather sickening and largely it's not even nutritious food!

Waitrose is OK if you have the cash, and certainly, on the 'screaming baby index' it comes in much lower than Asda, but they are all supermarkets, so I try to keep them in their place. This means trying to support local butchers, bakers etc so that they survive, plus the village shop, which is teetering on the edge....:(

I guess people see what they want to see with BOGOFs. I certainly grab the ones I want, and the other general offers, but most don't go past my internal filter. I saved £1.25 on each litre of olive oil I bought yesterday, so with five of those in the garage, that's £6.25 I can spend on seeds now.....or maybe not. Living in the country it probably cost us more than that to reach the supermarket, so planning visits and fitting several together is probably the most responsible and cost -effective approach we can take. If we go out of the local town/village area more than once a week, we are behaving badly.:o

rhiwfield

You start a thread on food and before you know it, its gone down the pan

Just as there are environmental arguments against the breed, baby, breed philosophy, advances in medical science mean that the old are living longer, but needing more care as they do, the cost of which is astronomical. Who pays for this? Its already becoming clear that the system of pensions most of us have grown up with is on its last legs. But all this is OT, so back to food.

Valk's long post was informative and level headed. If her niece doesnt move in with her, I'm putting my name down!

Waste is a problem, we see it in the supermarket supply chain, from veg ploughed in to fish thrown back, and in the home as the second of the bogofs gets binned. I'm not sure, with supermarkets grip on our purses tightening, that this will change much other then Princes changing its tuna labelling. One thing for sure, if you've grown it yourself you really dont like wasting it!

lostinrates

ceridwen wrote: »

That is precisely one of the points where I see difficulty being - those of us with 0, 1 or 2 children AND who have seen this coming for some time (in my case - make that deliberately childless and started having the first inklings about 30 years ago and VERY well aware for probably about the last 5 years or so) will be very unlikely to accept it being on a per person basis - with the extra resources that would be taken by larger families (ie those with 3 or more children).

Although, as you know, my opinion is not so far removed on ideal family numbers'' if rationing occurred I would thoroughly expect it to be per person and I'd be as moved to campaign if it were not.

The last thing we'd need is a generation of workers with rickets.

lostinrates

Davesnave wrote: »

Waitrose is OK if you have the cash, and certainly, on the 'screaming baby index' it comes in much lower than Asda, but they are all supermarkets, so I try to keep them in their place. This means trying to support local butchers, bakers etc so that they survive, plus the village shop, which is teetering on the edge....:(

I guess people see what they want to see with BOGOFs. I certainly grab the ones I want, and the other general offers, but most don't go past my internal filter. I saved £1.25 on each litre of olive oil I bought yesterday, so with five of those in the garage, that's £6.25 I can spend on seeds now.....or maybe not. Living in the country it probably cost us more than that to reach the supermarket, so planning visits and fitting several together is probably the most responsible and cost -effective approach we can take. If we go out of the local town/village area more than once a week, we are behaving badly.:o

ATM...because of time and not knowing where butchers are, most of our meat comes from Waitrose. No supermarket knows how to whoopsy like waitrose does...for a piece of meat as ethical as can be found in a supermarket and veg that others rarely do...I go there. Otherwise I only buy there what you can't elsewhere, and as far as groceries go its getting smaller.

00 flour for example...used to be a nightmare. And no, I will NOT buy flour from a mill owned by a multi millionaire as a hobby producing teeny little sackets for £5 either. My old neighbour and food gardening writer makes bread from wild grain he gathers. Its the best thing he produces....and the main bribe to god neighbourly relations. Its vastly superior to his veg!:o I don't know how much you'd need to grow for say...a loaf a week. I see a use for the bit of the verge I, not the council, own.

shellysue

rhiwfield wrote: »

..how will you put food on the table? Will it be doing without a holiday, converting your lawn to fruit and veg, changing diet, starting a community farm or something entirely different?

So in this brave new world of 7bn+ people, climate change, economic chaos, peak oil and conflict, how will you put food on the table if you are faced with bananas at £5 per kg, potatoes at £3 kg, no carrots cos they've gone to Poland, bread rationing due to Australian floods and Russian fires and no rice or soya because China has outbid the UK on the global commodities market.

To get back to your question, as you say, it might be a case that food is available, just so expensive that a value judgement would be needed when shopping and we are slowly sliding into that situation now.
I can grow basic veg and some fruit, stuff I cant grow will become luxury items and again I see that happening now in our local supermarkets. I can make my own clothes, another big saving.

What about people with no garden, will we see more migration from cities to rural areas? Pressure put on rural areas to provide more housing? Modern planning dictates smaller gardens with little opportunity for the home owner to grow more than a token amount.
I wouldnt want to be living in a high rise block over the next few years.

lostinrates

Davesnave wrote: »

But....what do you soak them in? Are we talking biological washing powder here? And which is worst, washing powder of any kind, or flushing away a bit of (comfy!) toilet roll?

I know which my septic tank prefers!

Having had to housetrai the feral cat I've been really wishing for bio washing powder recently!

I've compromised and put some in a bucket, with water for soaking, then handwashed, and watered the path outside before sweeping it, to get most use out of it. I do have doubts about watering even the grass with soapy water....but its been done for many years and if its the worst I do then....Ican live with myself.

But I think people who are used to mains drainage forget all the stuff you have to be careful of. The thing we are having is more ''immediate'' than a tank. e.g. I've never known not to wash paint brushes in the sink on a tan...in the water treatment centre....you turn your ditch the colour o the paint. No trying to pretend you haven't put something i that you shouldn't if the ditch goes ''sunset peach'', or whatever.

And hair....I don't know that shouldn't go in to a tank either.