If push comes to shove...?

RAS

ceridwen wrote: »

HIGHLY LIKELY scenario actually - and some countries (mainly China) are already pushing to get the use of OTHER country's land for food for their own people (eg China landgrabbing in Africa).

China and South Korea have been buying up or getting land grants in exchange for services for vast areas in East Africa.

Kirri

RAS wrote: »

My favourite is Lucellus, which a fellow plotter discovered a few years ago.

Last year, that coped under a foot or more of snaow for mnealry two months and then came back in March. All the coloured chards rotted early on.

You can get Lucellus from Lidl of all people.

Brilliant, will give that variety a go, thank you

RAS

rhiwfield wrote: »

Last two espaliers put in (March 2010) were Saturn and Winston, nurseryman boldly stating Winston is a spur bearer. Googling I'm getting both tip bearer and spur bearer. Have you got a definitive source on this, cos if it is a tip bearer it'll have to be replaced.

OK

Winston and Winston Sport (not spur -sorry) are both listed as tip bearers by Crawford. Keeper's says it is a spur bearer as does one other source.

I think the best thing might be to look at this video and see what you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt7IvNb_Drs


I would say defiantely has tip-bearing tendencies like WP but that it is capable of producing some spurs?

rhiwfield

RAS wrote: »

OK

Winston and Winston Sport (not spur -sorry) are both listed as tip bearers by Crawford. Keeper's says it is a spur bearer as does one other source.

I think the best thing might be to look at this video and see what you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt7IvNb_Drs


I would say defiantely has tip-bearing tendencies like WP but that it is capable of producing some spurs?

When I planted the trees in March 2010 in a new bed I was too late to order bare root and I got 3yo bush trees in pots and cut them back to two laterals each, pruning out all other growth, and trained the laterals.

I recall that both apples flowered along the length of the branches, and Saturn set a large amount of fruit whereas Winston didnt (but I think that Winston was slowish to establish, though it was fine later) Winston appears to have spurs on the branches so I'm going to see if it flowers and produces fruit on the spurs, there seems to be enough doubt to give it a real try, even though the youtube doesnt look too promising.

Cheers RAS.

Andy_Davies

rhiwfield wrote: »

Andy, the deficit is net after exports.

As I've said before, I'm not predicting armageddon. But the original point was how do we put food on the table with rising prices? Do we raid the holiday budget? Do we try to grow some of our own food, or perhaps start a community food growing group? And coming out of that what do we need to learn to be successful at growing our own food.

The risk factors I highlighted in the OP were mainly ones that would affect the economies of food production and transport. I dont doubt there are hope factors for future increase in food production including genetically modified crops, just as there are some very significant risk factors and a growing demand.

But specifically picking up on greening the desert, I notice no-one has yet mentioned changing growing techniques/water collecting to cope with predicted hotter, drier summers in the south east

From what I've read we're about 74% self-sufficient in the food that we can grow here.

And while we are around 60% self-sufficient overall this is historically quite high.

Now I think this isn't high enough but I don't think the figures include home and allotment grown food so perhaps things might not be too bad.

That said I think we've forgotten how to store food and make the most of the fallow months.

Andy

rhiwfield

Andy_Davies wrote: »

From what I've read we're about 74% self-sufficient in the food that we can grow here.

And while we are around 60% self-sufficient overall this is historically quite high.

Now I think this isn't high enough but I don't think the figures include home and allotment grown food so perhaps things might not be too bad.

That said I think we've forgotten how to store food and make the most of the fallow months.

Andy

Yes Andy, I think your figures are ones that I've seen, but (and there is a but ), the 60% net figure is also correct, which means imports have displaced home produced foods. And that makes us vulnerable to world price shocks. Mind, if govts cant prevent food being exported, then the UK could be 100% self sufficient only to see some of "our" food shipped to a nation prepared to pay more. I believe that is what is happening in some third world countries, as are land grabs which dispossess locals.

This being the green fingered board I've only really mentioned food prices (apart from oil which has a big impact on food prices). As a generality the 2008 food price spikes actually created a higher plateau of food prices and inflation has kicked on from there, so fruit prices for example rose 11% in 2009 and 7% in 2010. But food price inflation (currently about 6%?) is just one of a number of price hits we are taking atm, and something has to give, especially for those on fixed or low incomes.

So I think the original question has merit, especially as food is essential, so what will people do to make sure they have enough?

Thats the question I posed and my personal recipe is to examine all spend (including non food) and take action to prevent future budget excesses. Just as some people are paying down debt so they have more flexibility in the future. That gives the abillity to cope with unforeseen price shocks and be able to continue to afford essentials.

The other theme is one of family self sufficiency, which for many foodstuffs means we have better tasting food (and in quantity) than that which we could buy and at a lower cost.

The final elements are to avoid waste, both in using food and by preserving food, so as to largely reverse the process of buying in non essential imports.

The latter means accepting (and enjoying!) the seasonality of fresh foods e.g. the home produce "fruit" season goes rhubarb, strawberries, gooseberries raspberries, blackcurrants, blueberries, redcurrants, greengage, autumn raspberries, pears and apples (the latter lasting through to rhubarb again). And we'll prob still buy bananas and some exotic fruits for variety but not as staples.

I'd like to stress again that this is not a doom laden approach, but one that is both empowering and satisfying. Tomatoes that taste of tomatoes, priceless

Kirri

rhiwfield, there is something much more exciting in actually waiting for the first of everything to be ready each year - I much prefer it rather than just buying something all year round from the supermarket.

Plus the tastes are amazing when home grown, just a shame so many people have never experienced that!

lostinrates

Kirri wrote: »

rhiwfield, there is something much more exciting in actually waiting for the first of everything to be ready each year - I much prefer it rather than just buying something all year round from the supermarket.

Plus the tastes are amazing when home grown, just a shame so many people have never experienced that!

Even not home growing, but buying seasonally is wonderful. For us a lot of the marking of the year is by what we are eating. The chunks or slices of roasted squash and stuffed pastas are now giving way more to soups and rissotti ...where the stored stuff is starting to be less prime usually (we have nothing stored)and the new year demands heathier feeling food. Chestnuts are a big marker for us. This summer will iclude when our puffballs appear...and we try and make a parmigiana from them, and wild garlic. The moths with an ''r''for shellfish and the game seasons.....you feel like you are stepping in time with the world.

I understand the chinese have a concept about eating hot food when it cold and cold food when its hot too....which makes sense to me.

cootambear

rhiwfield wrote: »

Yes Andy, I think your figures are ones that I've seen, but (and there is a but ), the 60% net figure is also correct, which means imports have displaced home produced foods. And that makes us vulnerable to world price shocks. Mind, if govts cant prevent food being exported, then the UK could be 100% self sufficient only to see some of "our" food shipped to a nation prepared to pay more. I believe that is what is happening in some third world countries, as are land grabs which dispossess locals.

This being the green fingered board I've only really mentioned food prices (apart from oil which has a big impact on food prices). As a generality the 2008 food price spikes actually created a higher plateau of food prices and inflation has kicked on from there, so fruit prices for example rose 11% in 2009 and 7% in 2010. But food price inflation (currently about 6%?) is just one of a number of price hits we are taking atm, and something has to give, especially for those on fixed or low incomes.

So I think the original question has merit, especially as food is essential, so what will people do to make sure they have enough?

Thats the question I posed and my personal recipe is to examine all spend (including non food) and take action to prevent future budget excesses. Just as some people are paying down debt so they have more flexibility in the future. That gives the abillity to cope with unforeseen price shocks and be able to continue to afford essentials.

The other theme is one of family self sufficiency, which for many foodstuffs means we have better tasting food (and in quantity) than that which we could buy and at a lower cost.

The final elements are to avoid waste, both in using food and by preserving food, so as to largely reverse the process of buying in non essential imports.

The latter means accepting (and enjoying!) the seasonality of fresh foods e.g. the home produce "fruit" season goes rhubarb, strawberries, gooseberries raspberries, blackcurrants, blueberries, redcurrants, greengage, autumn raspberries, pears and apples (the latter lasting through to rhubarb again). And we'll prob still buy bananas and some exotic fruits for variety but not as staples.

I'd like to stress again that this is not a doom laden approach, but one that is both empowering and satisfying. Tomatoes that taste of tomatoes, priceless

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/10068/

since I pretty much agree with all of this argument, I hope you will forgive me for not rehashing it and claiming it as my own work.

cootambear

COOLTRIKERCHICK wrote: »

We dont go on holidays as such, just the odd weekend away,


If we were in this type of senario, then more time would be spend growing and looking after the fruit and veg, basically treating the veg like livestock... you bend over backwards to make sure they are kept well...

We would def utilize every inch of land/space... We would seriously have to think about making sure that one member of the family was home at all times, as I think there could be a high potential for veg theft...


food ready will post later...lol...

On this point Caroline is correct. without food exports, food surpluses in one area could not be used to eased crop failures in another. starvation would result.