If push comes to shove...?

cootambear

RAS wrote: »

When the really poor cannot afford to pay the market price, they starve. Just about every famine has taken place at times when those same countries and even districts were exporting food in large quantities; India (several times), Ireland, Ethiopia, Sudan. Two things kill indirectly, lack of purchasing power and poor logistics, rather than lack of available food in the country concerned. About the only exception maybe North Korea, but even that was partly logistics.

The world actually grows enough NOW to feed 9 billion on a very basic but adequate diet, but we die of overeating and others die for lack of food. I have the horrid horrid feeling that some people in afluenza would be happy to let other people starve, as long as their motor cars were chugging along on bio-fuels.

I regard learning to grow food and teaching others to grow food as a way of securing and supporting society, not as an indicator of the fall of civilisation. And I regard teaching those who are least well prepared as a priority. If these problems never happen, fine; quite a lot of people on low incomes and poor diets will probably be living rather better as a result. If they do, having a few thousand people down the road who have enough to tide them over an emergency is much better than having the same number trying to clear out the local supermarkets. And if we need to ship some muscle power out into rural areas to help farmers, they will be much more useful much quicker.

affluence, ie development is exactly what poor countries need to allow them to have improved farming techniques, and make the proportion of their incomes spent on food smaller, and therefore be less vulnerable to price spikes.

cootambear

It really does mean what is meant by land grabs. If it meant bringing low fertile or non fertile land ito high profuctive food use - in excahge for infrastructure like clean water and roads and electricity - then it would be a fatastic thing. I must admit though my igorace on the details!

Re gardening. As of course you know, I love it. Cheaper and better tasting food!
But probably 99% of the poplulation don`t have smallholdings. The average garden won`t keep people in food. Many live in terraced houses that have very little space. Many work long hours and are knackered whe they come home from work. Many would see gardening as a chore, not as a boon!

I do think there is the space for more people growing veg to increase - to a point. That point is the level where people do not see gardening as a lifestyle option for them. There is scope of course for making people feel guilty about their chosen behaviors - most government policy has been based on this in recent years - but at a certain tipping point people resist being preached at.

There is a way to make anything a valid lifestyle option for people - cut out the morality and (in my view unsustainable arguments about no food exports and 100% self sufficiency), and offer cultural enrichment.

Food that tastes good
Cheap food
The outdoor life
Gentle exercise.

Those were the choices I made as a subject, not an object.

rhiwfield

Kirri wrote: »

rhiwfield, there is something much more exciting in actually waiting for the first of everything to be ready each year - I much prefer it rather than just buying something all year round from the supermarket.

Kirri,

Like going to the seaside as a child, saying "are we there yet"

And the first to spot the sea!

And the first ripe strawberry of the season.

Lir: "you feel like you are stepping in time with the world" Love it!

ceridwen

cootambear wrote: »

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/10068/

since I pretty much agree with all of this argument, I hope you will forgive me for not rehashing it and claiming it as my own work.

The clue as to who Spiked are comes when one clicks on the "Hands off the Human Footprint" piccie.:cool:

zarazara

I am so pleased I bought some reduced seeds lst year. Had a look in my seed box today and relised I have about half of wht I want to grow so less to buy this year. Yippee.
I would like to keep pigs for pork. anyone on tihs thread done this?

Kirri

lostinrates wrote: »

Even not home growing, but buying seasonally is wonderful. For us a lot of the marking of the year is by what we are eating. The chunks or slices of roasted squash and stuffed pastas are now giving way more to soups and rissotti ...where the stored stuff is starting to be less prime usually (we have nothing stored)and the new year demands heathier feeling food. Chestnuts are a big marker for us. This summer will iclude when our puffballs appear...and we try and make a parmigiana from them, and wild garlic. The moths with an ''r''for shellfish and the game seasons.....you feel like you are stepping in time with the world.

I understand the chinese have a concept about eating hot food when it cold and cold food when its hot too....which makes sense to me.

I LOVE that phrase!

I certainly see the world differently now too, probably from spending so much time outside in it and actually experiencing the seasons and various weather, which I was quite detached from before.

Eating seasonally has been lost to many people from the rise of the supermarkets, I don't think many people even realise what is in season when now ..

rhiwfield wrote: »

Kirri,

Like going to the seaside as a child, saying "are we there yet"

And the first to spot the sea!

And the first ripe strawberry of the season.

Lir: "you feel like you are stepping in time with the world" Love it!

I still get excited about that now as an adult!

I had some of my strawberries today, in a jam tart made from jam made last June, but can't beat the first one of the season straight off the plant. Actually I get excited with the first of everything from rhubarb and asparagus down to beans - trying a new one this year, Spagno Bianco, has anyone tried that variety?? it's a large white shelling variety used in the Med apparently.

cootambear

ceridwen wrote: »

The clue as to who Spiked are comes when one clicks on the "Hands off the Human Footprint" piccie.:cool:

I don`t like that quote. I would prefer, make the human `footprint`, bigger.

valk_scot

I think on an individual level there would be a huge revival in traditional skills like vegetable and foodstuff production, storing and preserving food, cookery, livestock keeping etc. I know some of this has got quite fashionable lately but it's nowhere near the level it was say 50 or 100 years ago, where having this sort of knowledge was both more common and more necessary. Think of the war years and Make Do & Mend, or Digging For Victory, where every piece of spare land was pressed into food production. That was the same sort of thing...a need to revive older skills and a response from the goverment for increased education and knowledge.

I would also think that if things got very tight with food supplies some form of rationing would be reintroduced. There is a somewhat nostalgic view of rationing and I suspect the reality was much grimmer but it's a fact that the UK population did improve their health overall.

There would certainly be a drop in obesity levels! After all if foodstuffs quadrupled in price even the most dedicated junk food addict would be seeking out the best value for money nutritionally, I would think. Someone commented that if meat, dairy, sugars and fats went up in price or were scarce then bang went the main source of calories for most folk? True enough, at the moment, but it's a fact that most of us currently consume far too much of the above and it's wasteful of agricultural resources to produce these. We would have to go over to far more cereal and vegetable production nationally, just to provide maximum nutrition for as many people as possible. So I think there would be a massive shift towards a more vegetarian based diet, with meat, dairy, fat and sugar consumption being either reduced by pricing or rationed in some way.

On a personal level? Well, as my niece once said "If we have another Home Front type situation, I'm moving in with Auntie". I do think I've got a lot of the basic skill set that would be useful, like I've had my own allotment for 14 years now, I can cook and preserve food, I can budget, I've got a good grasp of nutrition. I always knew that Food & Nutrition "O" Level would come in handy one day! I really would have to up my game significantly though, in all areas. One thing I would do is involve my family a lot more. I've got one enormously under utilised resource in this house in that my husband and teenage son don't get involved in the allotment, but I could probably triple my productivity if I could use them as labour. My skills, their muscles! I've also got a secure garden that is currently also used only for decoration and leisure. If there was a major food crisis I'd be getting chickens in there asap. Good source of protein and eggs are good for barter too. Beekeeping? Why not? Brewing Hubby's beer? Winemaking? I can jam and make chutney, bottle fruit, salt and pickle things. I would try to avoid depending on freezing surplus long term I think and go over to drying as much as possible.

As to what other changes in our lifestyle I'd be making to accomodate rising food prices? What would we cut back on? Well the obvious place would be leisure activities and luxury goods. If it came to a choice between a holiday and not being able to feed my family properly I'd think the answer would be pretty obvious! Ditto the new electronic gizmo, CD or even a new lipstick v buying a litre of milk. The budget would have to shift to accomodate the necessities of life. I don't think this is rocket science tbh.

Oh, stockpiling and such? All well and good for a few months but long term I think it would be a question of finding alternatives for a lot of things. Preserving food gluts is one thing, stacking the loft full of loo paper is another. What did people use before loo paper was invented? I don't actually know but I'd make a point of finding out, and perhaps seeing what I could use along these lines. But it might be that for me, loo paper was the deal breaker. In which case I'd try to work the budget round buying this, and economise elsewhere. Would I rather buy a pack of loo paper than a bottle of wine or some chocolate for example?


I can see though that there would be a lot of moaning. We've all got used to having a high level of luxury goods in our lives and we're constantly bombarded by the message that this is what we should be aiming for. Oh yes? Time to re-assess the priorities, I think. Shift the mindset. It's not sustanable in the long run, either at a personal level (think increasing levels of credit card debt) or globally.

jakes-mum

The 'how will I put food on the table' question is one that preys on my mind, and I made the decision at the end of last year to have a go at growing my own veg and proudly bought my seeds yesterday :j
Now I have NEVER tried to grow food with the exception of the obligatory cress in an egg shell at school but it has always appealed and its been sheer lazyness that has stopped me before.

Ive decided to start with carrots, parsnip, peppers and tomatoes :eek: (nothing like being adventurous!) and even though I live in a terrace house with a small garden, I have a couple of the old newspaper recycle boxes and am going to try turning them into makeshift vegetable growers (no idea if its going to work but if you dont try . . . . )

Red_Doe

Fabulous post Valk Scot, and a lot of truth in there. Loo paper? I grew up in a remote Highland area in the sixties and seventies and loo roll often consisted of cut up squares of old newspaper strung onto a holder, then more often that horrid, hard and scratchy `medicated` stuff that was like plastic...Jeyes, or Sani-something, can`t remember offhand now.
But if we had to , each member of the family would use their own flannels, used then washed out thoroughly in hot soapy water with a little bleach added, then kept somewhere to dry and be available in the actual bathroom.
Not a pretty prospect but perfectly doable if needs must. Better than nothing....