If push comes to shove...?

Davesnave

rhiwfield wrote: »

You start a thread on food and before you know it, its gone down the pan

Point taken. So back to growing your own....

Some of the posters on here have indicated that they'd like to grow more of their own food but lack the space, but as/when food becomes more expensive, I'm sure more use will be made of allotments. As pressure grows, so people are willing to make more noise! Here is a very recent example from a nearby village:

http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/news/Council-urged-allotment-sites-village/article-1880035-detail/article.html

And here is a happy announcement from the latest local newsletter:

"Allotments

At last we have found a site, so are busy marking out plots and getting the initial weed treatment and ploughing underway. Modifications are in hand to move the gate into the field to ensure vehicles entering and leaving the site are off the road. Our thanks to various businesses in the village for their support and sponsorship: Leach Brothers, Mole Valley Farmers, D.J. Ford and to our local farmers for manure and the spreading machine. Without their help and advice we would be struggling to get this project off the ground. Many thanks to the members, who called in many favours, bent arms etc, to obtain the various bits and bobs what we need."

When DW spotted the above site just before Christmas, I looked the story up. It is outside the village, which is a shame, but this shows what a bit of determination can achieve.

Beside our place is a complex of 15 properties, most of which don't have proper gardens. I'm sure if, say, half a dozen or more of those residents got together, it could be worthwhile for us, or the other neighbouring farm, to rent them a plot. However, at present only one person has shown an interest, and he hasn't shown any awareness of the other 'issues' it raises, such as with those with insurances and the avoidance of accidentally creating rights.

Lotus-eater

lostinrates wrote: »

00 flour for example...used to be a nightmare. And no, I will NOT buy flour from a mill owned by a multi millionaire as a hobby producing teeny little sackets for £5 either. My old neighbour and food gardening writer makes bread from wild grain he gathers. Its the best thing he produces....and the main bribe to god neighbourly relations. Its vastly superior to his veg!:o I don't know how much you'd need to grow for say...a loaf a week. I see a use for the bit of the verge I, not the council, own.

Waitrose's organic stoneground flour is excellent and well priced, we always stock up when we go.

We've also been grinding our own for a while and bought some virtually organic grain, that we've been putting into our loaves at about 25-50%

valk_scot

Davesnave wrote: »

But....what do you soak them in? Are we talking biological washing powder here? And which is worst, washing powder of any kind, or flushing away a bit of (comfy!) toilet roll?

I know which my septic tank prefers!

Water and a bit of bleach/Milton was the norm back in the dark ages, I think, before fancy stuff like bio washing powder was invented. You could probably get away with just water for 24 hours if you had a lid on the bucket, especially if it was just pee we're talking about.

I was kind of thinking that if prices went up that much it might be a question of cutting down a lot on other items to be able to afford to feed oneself. I wasn't specifically including the environmental angle tbh. Perhaps a middle ground...use disposable loo paper for solids, and reusable cloth wipes for pee? It would cut down usage a lot in a female dominated household and they'd not exactly be a bother to wash. You could even put the soaking water + pee residue on the compost heap. Hows that for environmentally helpful?

Poosmate

valk_scot wrote: »

You could probably get away with just water for 24 hours if you had a lid on the bucket, especially if it was just pee we're talking about.

Perhaps a middle ground...use disposable loo paper for solids, and reusable cloth wipes for pee? It would cut down usage a lot in a female dominated household and they'd not exactly be a bother to wash. You could even put the soaking water + pee residue on the compost heap. Hows that for environmentally helpful?

Yes, that's the compromise I'd go for regarding toilet roll. I'm not anywhere near that point yet though. However, I have thought about making some reusable "lady products" for use at home, but I'd use the manufactured products to go out. Another compromise.

I believe I stated earlier that I thought I was in the "pre push" zone, but thinking about how I live now I may already be in the "push" zone.

I feel as though I've been seriously thinking about how I live for years and have slowly evolved into my lifestyle now. Some of the things I no longer do are more due to circumstances rather than cutting expenses. For instance, I rarely drink alcohol now for two reasons (or circumstances) the first being, my local pub shut down and the closest one is too far to walk to/from safely alone and secondly, I drive to family functions/gatherings as my family live at least 15 miles away and a taxi there and back would just be too expensive. I have stayed over with family occasionally but I hate driving the next day and am never quite sure if I'm absolutely 100% alcohol free. I guess I am more responsible now.

Turning my garden over to neighbours for fruit/veg production is partly because I can't do gardening (I'm a jibbering wreck out there - scared of everything) and it's shameful to have that bit of land being so wasteful (and unsightly as it's very overgrown) when it could be put to better use and help my neighbours too.

I belive I've so far been thinking in a greener kind of way and financial savings would be a bonus. But the last 4-5 months my thinking has been more financial based. I am very aware that the BoE base rate could go up any month and although my mortgage went down in Dec 2009 (a long time after the initial reductions by the BoE) since then the cost of everything else has gone up and eaten away at that £48 per month saving. Granted I've been able to reduce my debt a bit, over and above the minimum payments, but I still feel in a precarious situation especially knowing there will be no payrise this April to look forward to.

I am certainly feeling the pinch this month. A long month if payed monthly as we get paid early in December. This follows several months of extra unexpected expenses (namely car stuff to the tune of £300). I don't have £100 per month spare or I'd be paying it off my debts! Good job I had some savings!!

Maybe I feel I am in the "push" zone just because of the last few months and assuming nothing goes wrong within the next couple or few months I'll consider myself back in the "pre push" zone and maybe enter "push" again when the mortgage rates go up. I guess that will depend upon how much debt I can reduce and how productive I can get my garden and if I can make savings and increase earning elsewhere.

I fear my future this year is going to be push.

Poo

zarazara

I am aiming to grow more fruit and veg than last year,plant some saplings for eventual wood for burning,and am looking into the possibility of pig keeping.

RAS

rhiwfield wrote: »

how will you put food on the table if you are faced with bananas at £5 per kg, potatoes at £3 kg, no carrots cos they've gone to Poland, bread rationing due to Australian floods and Russian fires and no rice or soya because China has outbid the UK on the global commodities market.

Thanks zarazara

I really do need to get better at growing stuff on the allotment, making it more productive.

And I will be teaching people how to graft their own fruit, for the future - UK dependence on foreign imports for fruit is over 90 percent.

Kirri

shellysue wrote: »

To get back to your question, as you say, it might be a case that food is available, just so expensive that a value judgement would be needed when shopping and we are slowly sliding into that situation now.
I can grow basic veg and some fruit, stuff I cant grow will become luxury items and again I see that happening now in our local supermarkets. I can make my own clothes, another big saving.

What about people with no garden, will we see more migration from cities to rural areas? Pressure put on rural areas to provide more housing? Modern planning dictates smaller gardens with little opportunity for the home owner to grow more than a token amount.
I wouldnt want to be living in a high rise block over the next few years.

I live in flats with a reasonable area of 'garden' including grassed areas around them, as do most of the blocks here but in our flats we aren't allowed so much as a washing line - such a waste of useful land like a lot of blocks of flats in London when it could be used by at least a few of the residents for veg growing and a bit of community spirit.

Kirri

ceridwen wrote: »

Sainsburys is my normal supermarket - and they have huge swathes of the most perishable food (ie fruit and veg) priced at something like "2 for £4 - but individual items cost more than £2" (ie those higher unit prices for smaller amounts). It doesnt matter much in the case of promotions like "5 cans of beans for £1" type promotions - because canned beans will keep for months - but with perishable stuff on the other hand...

Asda and Waitrose arent here in my area anyway.

I don't shop in Sainsbury's enough to know the prices, I like the shop but it's further to drive.. I just don't buy that particular item if it's say a family pack on offer that week or 2 packs as I won't use it, Clementines/satsumas are a prime example, when I only want a few a week. I try to buy loose where possible.

Kirri

Davesnave wrote: »

Waitrose is OK if you have the cash, and certainly, on the 'screaming baby index' it comes in much lower than Asda, but they are all supermarkets, so I try to keep them in their place. This means trying to support local butchers, bakers etc so that they survive, plus the village shop, which is teetering on the edge....:(

I guess people see what they want to see with BOGOFs. I certainly grab the ones I want, and the other general offers, but most don't go past my internal filter. I saved £1.25 on each litre of olive oil I bought yesterday, so with five of those in the garage, that's £6.25 I can spend on seeds now.....or maybe not. Living in the country it probably cost us more than that to reach the supermarket, so planning visits and fitting several together is probably the most responsible and cost -effective approach we can take. If we go out of the local town/village area more than once a week, we are behaving badly.:o

Unfortunately I live in a big town, there is no butcher, baker (I don't count Greggs as a proper bakers..) and no greengrocer, it's shocking!

I still shopped in Waitrose when I was unemployed (I changed from Morrisons to Waitrose at the time), I had the same budget, £20 per week regardless of which shop I was going to spend it in and Waitrose price match on Morrisons/Tesco prices on a lot of items and they have an essentials range which is good quality for a basic range. The odd thing if more expensive I may buy in Morrisons still but for the sort of food I like I can get my basic foods in Waitrose within my budget and for much better quality. They still have offers and tend to be on things I would use more. I hate rude customers too so it's a refreshing bonus to shop in Waitrose!

Things like olive oil, especially in Morrisons, nearly always seem to be at least one brand or another on offer every week or so and I don't bother to stock up now. Most offers cycle round so I get as I need them mostly but I prefer money off rather than two of something.

Davesnave

Kirri wrote: »

Unfortunately I live in a big town, there is no butcher, baker (I don't count Greggs as a proper bakers..) and no greengrocer, it's shocking!

The main reason why we still have a butcher, baker and greengrocer/farm shop is because the nearest supermarket is 12 miles away. The nearest Waitrose from here is about 21 miles.

And no, I don't count Greggs as a a bakers either!:rotfl: