If push comes to shove...?

RAS

ceridwen wrote: »

As I recall from reading a book about the history of potatoes recently - the Irish Potato Famine came about because the family plots of land got divided and sub-divided yet again (in order for each household to have their own plot). So - the plots got progressively smaller and therefore it was more and more the case that they had to "extract maximum value" per square foot of land and that was why they used so much of the land to grow potatoes (ie that was the way to get best calorific value per acre of land). Hence they ended up with all their "eggs in one basket" and when blight hit they were up the creek without a paddle...

Partly, and partly the Government at the time allowed food that could have been used to alleviate the famine to be exported to England. And I doubt the Pale helped either.

In the historical context, if you look at what happened on the mainland, in 1841 sixteen percent of the population in my area were on the parish. Even though the Poor Law had been brought in most were actually on outdoor relief.

In Scotland throughout the Central belt and the manufacturing towns in the northeast, people were literally selling the clothes off their backs to feed themselves and their families. The official reports refer to skeletal people whose modesty was preserved by a single rag. The Government was so concerned about a revolution that they secretly funded charitable relief.

There were good reasons why people planted lots of potatoes and why they concentrated on one variety. There was also an element of compassion fatigue and compared with today, news travelled slowly.

valk_scot

rhiwfield wrote: »

Dont know whether to laugh or cry!

• Tesco cut organic curly kale is £5.95 kg
• Tesco cut curly kale on offer £4 kg

I saw forced rhubarb the other day at £5 a kilo. Rhubarb! I can barely give the stuff away fast enough come high season...I'm reduced to leaving bags full on my long suffereing neighbours doorsteps. I went straight home and pulled a bag full out the freezer to make crumble that night. £5 a kilo! Yeah Gawds!

RAS

Would you be prepared to pm me your rules?

valk_scot wrote: »

We have some pretty strict rules about tattie growing on our allotment including one rule that's been on the books since Year 1,

1. Which is to lift all potatoes by the end of October and no tatties left in the ground or in clamps over the winter.

Most of the offenders clamp. Must confess I have occasionally had very small amounts of Sarpo in the ground until the first frost. So I may have missed that deadline by a few days.

2. Also we as the committee have the right to insist on tatties shaws being either treated or cut down if blight takes a hold

I personally cut the haulms back and dessicate them as soon as I spot blight on the offenders' plots and in consequence am able to retain decent crops on nearly every variety - although Fortyfold was a bit of a problem. I delibarately walk the paths near the offending plots to keep an eye on this.

Some of the offenders come back from holiday to blight that has reduce the plants to brown stems. I have got the nearest plot holder to cut his haulms now because he has seen the difference it makes.

3. and to issue a formal disciplinary warning to anyone found leaving potato debris around on their plots or disposing of it on compost heaps.

My closest neighbour leaves huge quantities of chat and damaged potatoes on the ground to rot over the winter or digs them in when he goes over the plot later. I drives me mad. He is not exceptional.

I burn all diseased tatties and haulms and any other diseased solanum material.

4We also run a communal buying scheme for seed potatoes from a reputable local seed merchant, which works out as a very good deal for plotholders and encourages them to use fresh seed potatoes every year. (£2 for a 2Kg bag for most varieties, including blight resistant and organic varieties.)

We have a buying scheme and it is about the same price. That does not stop them planting ware potatoes and their own clamped potatoes that are beginning to sprout.

We also subscribe to the national Blightwatch service and send out emails to members/post warnings on the notice board, so that people can spray early if they feel they need to. We still get blight of course but it's fairly minimal, and most of the members' potato crops are good healthy ones. We do our best without getting too draconian and the members are very cooperative tbh.

At least one member has told others that if we admit to having blight, DEFRA will stop us growing tatties. Even when I show them blighted foliage, I am told it is not blight.

Personally, I grow on raised beds so rotation is easy and I don't actually grow huge quantities of spuds either, just enough to last through to about January. I prefer to use my potato section for new potatoes and salad types. But, referring back to the original question, I think we've all got a good start on maximising potato yield on our site, where disease is concerned anyway.

I agree with you on this. I have a nasty feeling from partly overheard conversations that some of them may have the beginning of an eeelworm problem.

Good growing hygiene! I think if more people became dependant on growing their own food some sort of code of good growing practice would have to be developed to help with disease control and to maximise yields, which would be good for everyone.

Very interesting to learn about the way others manage the problem.

[Deleted User]

This is my first time on this thread and I still have to read about 165 posts but my ears pricked up on reading all the very useful information on potato diseases. I have just got my allotment shipshape and am planned and ready to go with my first full plantings of a 4 plot rotation. I haven`t grown potatoes before and they are rotation plot D. There are only 6 of us on the allotment site and the owner of the one next to me is careless ie she leaves her potato haulm on the ground and then eventually moves it to a heap at the end of her patch, a plant and sod dump (and not a compost heap). Two plots to my right is an owner with a small patch who only seems to grow runner beans and potatoes, year on year.

Argh, I am going to have to keep my mouth shut (for now because I am the new kid) although I have been growing veg for a long time, only not potatoes. We are going to do what RAS does and cut the haulms if we spot any sign whatsoever of blight on the site and I may just stick with first and second earlies in future. Good tip and thanks RAS

and by the way waitrose broccoli spears are over £8 a kilo

valk_scot

RAS wrote: »

Would you be prepared to pm me your rules?



Very interesting to learn about the way others manage the problem.

For potatoes? I've basically outlined them above. If you want the full rules I'm sorry, I don't have them on the PC. They're not that draconian in other places though...they're mostly to do with who's allowed to "inherit" a plot before it gets turned over to the waiting list, the number of warning letters etc you get before you get chucked off and what they cover and a very big rule about No Fires. The rest of it is just trivial stuff like where you're allowed to put the shed etc.

cootambear

Tatties were only a supplemental crop in Ireland until measures were taken to control the Irish and steal land. The majority and best of the land was owed by anglicans who ties to Britain were greater than to Ireland.

Landlords used subletting middlemen to sell or rent out or sell tiny plots to the Irish.

These tiny plots of poor quality land could only be efficiently used to grow the potato to feed a family (and sometimes that was not even enough).

The causes of the famine are very complex, far greater than my little (potted) point above.

rhiwfield

valk_scot wrote: »

and a very big rule about No Fires.

Val, RAS was saying that he burned the haulms and you wrote earlier that you cant compost on your site, but neither can you burn. What do you do with diseased haulms?

EDIT: I compost haulms, even those showing early blight signs, but havent had blight affect tubers

valk_scot

rhiwfield wrote: »

Val, RAS was saying that he burned the haulms and you wrote earlier that you cant compost on your site, but neither can you burn. What do you do with diseased haulms?

I burn them at home in my garden incinerator. Other plot holders take their non-compostable green waste to the council dump. The heat their huge compost heaps generate kill a lot more spores, pathogens seeds and diseases etc than a totty wee domestic compost heap or even a big cubic metre allotment heap.

rhiwfield wrote: »

I compost haulms, even those showing early blight signs, but havent had blight affect tubers

Blight spores develop on the haulm so putting them in your compost heap just transfers them to the ground by a more indirect route. Also potato haulms can carry lots of diseases so it's best practice to dispose of them elsewhere anyway, blight or no blight. It's the same reasoning behind not putting potato peelings in your compost bins as well.

Oh, and the same for tomato top growth. Get rid of it too.

RAS

valk_scot wrote: »

I burn them at home in my garden incinerator.

I am allowed to burn stuff, as long as it "does not cause a nuisance". I could not do that at home.

That can mean waiting for the right wind and making sure that there are no windows open at dusk, so I can burn stuff.

Always save some good dry stuff to get the fire going.

I do not peel potatoes before cooking, so hopefully there is not problem there

cootambear

valk_scot wrote: »

I saw forced rhubarb the other day at £5 a kilo. Rhubarb! I can barely give the stuff away fast enough come high season...I'm reduced to leaving bags full on my long suffereing neighbours doorsteps. I went straight home and pulled a bag full out the freezer to make crumble that night. £5 a kilo! Yeah Gawds!

Its out of season for rhubarb, forced barb is grown in heated sheds (expensive).

Wise gardeners like you freeze in glut times.