Petrol Price Hike - VAT

victor2

pwllbwdr wrote: »

Benefits should be about need, not about getting "something back". There are loads of people around who will never get a fraction back of what they pay in taxes. That isn't the way it works and never has been.

Agreed. It's a form of compulsory insurance though. No guarantee of anything back but it should be there if you need it. Defining "need" is a whole new topic though!

pwllbwdr

Yes. There if you need it as a safety net. Not necessarily to maintain the lifestyle you've been used to. Although why anyone would aspire to a BMW is beyond me.

Wig

victor2 wrote: »

Agreed. It's a form of compulsory insurance though. No guarantee of anything back but it should be there if you need it. Defining "need" is a whole new topic though!

Yes and the payouts are very generous IMO. You get:

6mths JSA £1700 if you are rich or have a partner who is working F/T (as long as you have paid the right NI)
Lifetime JSA/IS if you are not rich and have no or little household income
Lifetime fantastic free healthcare
Lifetime subsidised dental care / free for some
A very generous pension/pension credit (compared to those living on JSA) after pension age.
Lifetime free housing rent (means tested)
Lifetime mortgage interest payments (means tested)
Extra monies and possibly a car for people who have disability .


All we are saying is that it's completely wrong for someone who has money to be able to get a lifetime of subsidised luxury cars.

And I'll go further...... IMO the disability payments should be means tested, the car package should be limited to a couple of free cars to choose from for the people with no money. And if you have enough money in the bank you shouldn't get any free car at all. You can have a free Aixam when you have exhausted your savings.

If you want more than these fantastic entitlements to keep you more closely to the standard of living you have always had. Then get your own private insurance policy with bigger payouts.

victor2

Wig wrote: »

All we are saying is that it's completely wrong for someone who has money to be able to get a lifetime of subsidised luxury cars.

But equally, someone who has money will most likely have involuntarily contributed a significant amount into the welfare system and will not receive any of the means tested benefits. If his circumstances have changed so that due to a disability, he is entitled to a subsidised vehicle and he still has some money to improve it, then he's earned it IMO.
However, I heartly agree with those who criticise the people who just bleed the welfare system for whatever they can get, without the intention of putting anything back in to it if they are able.
Kind of diverted this thread away from its original topic!

Wig

victor2 wrote: »

But equally, someone who has money will most likely have involuntarily contributed a significant amount into the welfare system and will not receive any of the means tested benefits. If his circumstances have changed so that due to a disability, he is entitled to a subsidised vehicle and he still has some money to improve it, then he's earned it IMO.

Luckily for some, the rules currently allow this, but common sense tells me it's too generous. Just like child benefit and tax credits are too generous, but that's another story. It is, as you say an insurance policy and you will and probably are able to take advantage of a lot of it now and when you retire. Reality can change for anyone, so any one of us might need those means tested benefits at some time, the point is they are there if we need them. Just because you haven't needed them yet doesn't entitle you to take a bigger slice from somewhere else.

I, for example, have probably seen a Doctor about 10 times (or less) in the last 22 years and each visit was never more than 20 mins and I probably had about 3 prescriptions in all of that time. I am very grateful that I have the right to see a Dr for free whenever I feel the need. I'll probably never be entitled to a free car which I can upgrade to a BMW or a Merc, I do have the money to upgrade but I'll hopefully never be disabled. I don't think that this should entitle me to better benefits for example a higher rate of JSA if I was to become unemployed.

Even after the coming benefits reforms the system is still far too generous more cuts need to be made and this motability scheme sounds like a good contender for cuts.

jblack_2

Personally I think NO benefit should be used to subsidise any item which is not a necessity. It's a benefit not a handout although many think it is.

pwllbwdr

victor2 wrote: »

But equally, someone who has money will most likely have involuntarily contributed a significant amount into the welfare system and will not receive any of the means tested benefits. If his circumstances have changed so that due to a disability, he is entitled to a subsidised vehicle and he still has some money to improve it, then he's earned it IMO.
However, I heartly agree with those who criticise the people who just bleed the welfare system for whatever they can get, without the intention of putting anything back in to it if they are able.
Kind of diverted this thread away from its original topic!

I thought we'd already agreed that the amount you may or may not have contributed to the welfare system during a working life has no bearing whatsoever on need for drawing benefits.

I personally think that someone who takes a motability vehicle when they have sufficient personal wealth to buy and run a car without IS bleeding the welfare system.

Harry_Flashman

I'm inclined to think it's the system at fault though.

If you could get a car for free - wouldn't you? I know I would.

anewman

Harry_Flashman wrote: »

I'm inclined to think it's the system at fault though.

If you could get a car for free - wouldn't you? I know I would.

In the end it's not really free as you miss out on the DLA. If you need modifications and a reliable vehicle Motability might be a good idea, whereas if you need no modifications and can be without a car if it cocks up, you may as well spend a grand on a second hand motor and consider the DLA you'd have passed up as money for fuel and repairs.

Wig

The same ESSO has now increased to
132p Unleaded
135p Diesel

An M4 motorway junction 'Total' is at
135 Unleaded
141 Diese

Haven't been to Tesco or the cheaper Esso or my Gas supplier yet.