Colleague issue

ceridwen

gwen80 wrote: »

Thanks Rosa. I have high blood pressure anyway, but I can physically feel it must be pretty high at the moment, I'm really tense to the point I ache and if I sleep tonight it'll be a miracle. I think the last time I managed to sleep properly was before New Year. I went out with a few friends last night and I freaked out when a bloke tried to talk to me, turned and walked off away from my friends. I wanted to go out with a sign that said 'Men - do not approach'. I just cannot cope with being around men I don't trust and even then I'm very wary.

Obviously not all men are like him, but clearly I'm not very good at spotting them.

Gwenx

Hoy! Don't tell yourself "I'm no good at spotting men like that"...just DON'T!

A heck of a high proportion of women have said that to themselves before now (including me....:() - so many of us make mistakes of some description and trust the wrong ones in some context or another.

But - having said that - most of us then go on to learn how to spot a "bad 'un" and we don't spend the rest of our lives trusting the wrong person. Honestly - take it from me - most of us DO learn how to spot them as time goes on....

Stop blaming yourself Gwen - it aint your fault.

hippygran

Gwen,

Don't panic about his denial to the police.

He will have consulted his solicitor and been advised to deny it.

More fool him!

As a previous poster has pointed out, neither the police, nor HR are idiots.

However, he quite possibly is.

Think about it, a caution now, or go to court, (where the 'penalty' will be far harsher!)

I shouldn't worry about having to go to court either, because it is quite probable that when it actually comes down to it, the plea will change, even at the very last minute.

I had to go to court 3 times in less than 18 months, (not for the sexual harassment incidents, but for assaults by the general public on myself or my staff).

Each time the defendant changed their plea to guilty at the very last minute, (whilst the witnesses were waiting to be called).

This is because, if they are guilty, the legal advice will advocate a change of plea at the last minute, because it is common knowledge that the sentence for a guilty plea, is usually lower than the penalty handed down to someone FOUND guilty, when they enter a plea of not guilty.

I am not surprised he denied, because the lawyer would have advised it, and because he has probably lied to his wife and family, so feels he has no other option.

Go on your holiday, all you need to do is inform the police of the dates when you are not available for any court case.

Stick to you guns now, and see it through.

In all probability HR may have a result for you soon, and they will not need him to admit it, they will go on 'probability', and the e-mails weigh heavily in your favour. Plus they will be looking at it from a 'sexual harassment point of view', and this consisted of MUCH more than the exposure!!

The police will persue him independently, and as they take these cases very seriously, they will not let him off the hook THAT easily!!!

As more you not being good at spotting this sort of man - it really not that easy. However, you may spot it earlier next time - and you will certainly be able to handle them better should it ever happen again!

I can spot them a mile off now - and am SO aggressive if anyone gets in my personal space, that they back off VERY quickly!!!!! ANY even slightly 'off' comment gets shot down in flames so fast they don't know what on earths hit them!!!

Sending you love and good wishes at this difficult time - but to put it in a bit of context - at least you know that tomorrow at work you WON'T be subjected to a 'willy wave!' XXX :rotfl:

Sambucus_Nigra

gwen80 wrote: »

I emailed him saying 'I have to ask, but when I passed you the document in the office yesterday evening, did you realise you were exposing yourself?'

He replied saying 'No! I wasn’t was I?! How? I’m sorry if I was, it certainly wasn’t intentional!!'

I replied saying 'Err, yes you were. Out of your jeans.'

He replied saying 'I’m sorry, I really didn’t mean to be…'

Most of that is copied and pasted directly from the email (which I have forwarded onto my personal email account). I've just replaced the actual name of the document with 'the document'. I'm trying to protect my anonymity, but it's getting increasingly difficult.

Sorry - but this response is ridiculous. What man ever will expose himself and say 'sorry it wasn't intentional'?

Whoops, it fell out, just as you were walking over? I mean, come on!

I really didn't mean to be out of my jeans, I just - well - wanted to waft it about a bit in the fresh air? I just couldn't be bothered to walk to the gents to do it?

Good grief...what a bloke.

And if anyone says that email is him denying it, point out that if you had accused someone of getting it out and wafting it around and he hadn't - would that really be the response of an innocent party?

whitewing

gwen, please try not to worry, a man who gets his privates out in the office is not going to have the best judgement anyway, and as otherrs have said he will have been advised to deny it.

The fact that you reported it to the police should show HR that you are serious, and I took his email answer as a sign of guilt too.

Stay strong and quietly determined. The police are quick to keep you updated so they are taking you seriously too. His lawyer may change his advice when it looks like it is going to court, long before it even does.

gwen80

Sambacus Nigra - That's what I thought! If you'd been falsely accused of something like that you'd deny it all the way, not say 'it was unintentional' and 'I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be...'

Why, if you'd been falsely accused by somebody, would you be hanging round them just after they'd accused you??? Wouldn't you be worried that you might get accused of something else?

It doesn't make any sense. He is an idiot.

1984ReturnsForReal_2

hippygran wrote: »

He will have consulted his solicitor and been advised to deny it.

No they wouldn't.

The only way a solicitor would have advised him to deny it is if he does deny it to his solicitor but even then any decent solicitor would of said for him to shut his gob.

GEEGEE8

Best of luck for tomorrow! xx

ceridwen

1984ReturnsForReal wrote: »

No they wouldn't.

The only way a solicitor would have advised him to deny it is if he does deny it to his solicitor but even then any decent solicitor would of said for him to shut his gob.

I dont know the answer as to whether his solicitor would have told him to deny it or no - but I do know that if he is denying it to everyone else (his wife for instance...) then chances are that he is also denying it to his solicitor.

Stupid man would be much better served by just admitting it now and getting a "caution". That way he would get let off lightly by the Police - but he isnt thinking logically is he? (or he wouldnt have acted this way in the first place...).

He's trying to protect his marriage and he maybe thinks its a way to "play for time" as regards keeping his job - thats why he is denying it.

Nicki

I realise I need to tread carefully in this post, and want to start by saying again that I 100% believe your account Gwen. However I do think you need to be realistic about how the email exchange could be construed.

First of all, you said in your email "did you realise you were exposing yourself.". If I were representing him, either in criminal or employment proceedings, I would rely on this wording to show that the exposure could have been accidental. Otherwise why would you think he might not have realised it. A more natural form of words if he had been blatantly flashing would have been "you were exposing yourself".

Second his response was: "I wasn't was I. If I was, I apologise". So his first response was a denial, and his second line of response is "it was accidental". Neither of those positions constitute an admission of intentional exposure.

I don't mean to upset you or worry you by this, but in my view he has played the email exchange here quite cleverly, and you will be lulling yourself into a false sense of security if you convince yourself that they are evidence of his guilt. As others have said, though, HR and the police will not accept his denial at face value, and it was always going to be unlikely that he would admit it outright. But there is circumstantial evidence in your favour including his other e-mails and his harassment of other staff, and convictions and dismissals have been won on less, so I wouldn't lose hope that things will all work out well in the long run.

blue_monkey_2

You cannot 'accidently' expose yourself if you are a man can you? Unless you are in shorts a la Alan Partridge! And 'If I was I did not mean to be', like it just fell out is not going to fool anyone - especially if he keeps on denying it and it has to go before a jury. I hope that the courts and HR will have someone with some common sense on board anyway!!