Colleague issue

ceridwen

gwen80 wrote: »

I've been rereading the thread and have realised I've missed out an important part. Probably because I didn't realise the importance myself at the time, I was such a mess. It was only when I showed the emails to a friend that she pointed out that one in particular is pretty much an admission. He emailed me saying 'I wasn't, was I? If I was, it was certainly unintentional' He also asked how he'd been exposing himself. I replied saying 'Yes you were. Out of your jeans'. He replied saying 'I'm sorry, I really didn't mean to be...'

All the emails have been passed onto HR now, so it's in their hands. Dreading work this week.

Gwenx

AH!!! Well - that should be pretty helpful. That's concrete proof that he did it deliberately on the one hand and that you objected on the other hand. Bingo! Hopefully that should make it a lot easier to get him "dealt with appropriately":)

sho_me_da_money

MissDelilah wrote: »

Do you think though, that because he's friends with me, he feels more comfortable and is therefore pushing the boundaries? The other complicating factor is that there is a tiny bit of history between us. I used to like him (as more than a friend) and got the impression he liked me ('well, clearly' you're thinking, but not in a pervy way). He seemed nice, normal, intelligent, funny etc, etc and I got the impression that there was a bit of chemistry there. This was all years ago and soon after he'd joined my department. One day we met up out of work, had a few drinks, ended up snogging, but after that he said he didn't want to take things any further. Do you think any of this history is part of why he is being like this?

Gwen - the slightly worrying factor for me has been the "I used to like him as more as a friend part" and the "chemistry". Also the "he didn't want to take things any further part"

Do you think that in any way you may have felt spurned by this man not wanting to date you and your past attraction to him and the chemistry, maybe he liked you more than you liked him etc?

The only reason I am asking the above 2 questions is that the police will no doubt pry and ask these questions and so will your HR department. I don't know if the man will be charged/arrested with indecent behaviour but you HAVE to accept that this will certainly be dredged up. Would you feel comfortable having to face his barrister in court and admitting the above evidence?

I know what I am saying is at odds with my other supportive posts and others posts here but I am curious as it sort of puts the blame now at 80% your favour 20% his favour.

MissD.

And it is for these very points that I am basing all my opinions/comments. There is a valid case to claim contributory negligence, if you will (sorry can't think of a better term)

I am not trying to be a trouble causer but I do believe that the above will come into question and the OP MUST prepare for this.

peachyprice

gwen80 wrote: »

I've been rereading the thread and have realised I've missed out an important part. Probably because I didn't realise the importance myself at the time, I was such a mess. It was only when I showed the emails to a friend that she pointed out that one in particular is pretty much an admission. He emailed me saying 'I wasn't, was I? If I was, it was certainly unintentional' He also asked how he'd been exposing himself. I replied saying 'Yes you were. Out of your jeans'. He replied saying 'I'm sorry, I really didn't mean to be...'

All the emails have been passed onto HR now, so it's in their hands. Dreading work this week.

Gwenx

Gwen that is ringing huge great big pervy alarm bells in my head. It sounds like he was getting off on trying to make you write exactly what you saw.

sho_me_da_money

gwen80 wrote: »

I'm considering having this thread closed because it's all a bit too much, but before I do, I want to make this absolutely crystal clear for what feels like the billionth time.

1. I spoke to him face to face about the emails. I said that I enjoyed his company as a friend, but the inappropriate emails would have to stop. I was happy to chat about work or whatever else, but not the emails about me, my body or making rude suggestions. I wanted us to remain friends if it was at all possible, but if the emails didn't stop, I'd have to report him. In case anybody's still unsure...I ASKED THE EMAILS TO STOP.

2. The last inappropriate email I received was on the day of the exposure. Prior to that the last inappropriate email I received was in March. After so long I thought he'd finally got the message. After all he got married in November - I thought he was bucking his ideas up as he should have been.

3. I've had an awful lot going on in my life these last few years. The last thing I needed was a sexual harassment case aswell. I could cope with the emails, I didn't need the hassle of this sort of case. I'd made it clear I didn't want them and he'd stopped for 9 months. My psychic powers must have let me down because I never, ever imagined he would indecently expose himself, let alone touch up other women aswell. Should I now be saying to every man I know 'in case you're unsure, I never want you to indecently expose yourself to me'?

The part in bold is precisely why this ended up the way it did.

In your own admission you said you could cope with the inappropriate emails, which to me means that had he of NOT exposed himself (on that day), you would have "coped" with his modelling email and not reported him.

Do you not see how not reporting him OR "coping with his emails" led to his confidence growing and ultimately crossing the line [exposing himself]?

I am sorry but I think you are to blame to some degree.

And to the people thinking that my posts aren't helping - I know for a FACT the police will quiz the OP on this. By expressing my views on here, I am helping the OP in preparing for the inevitable.

bluetownbarry

sho_me_da_money wrote: »

The part in bold is precisely why this ended up the way it did.

In your own admission you said you could cope with the inappropriate emails, which to me means that had he of NOT exposed himself (on that day), you would have "coped" with his modelling email and not reported him.

Do you not see how not reporting him OR "coping with his emails" led to his confidence growing and ultimately crossing the line [exposing himself]?

I am sorry but I think you are to blame to some degree.

And to the people thinking that my posts aren't helping - I know for a FACT the police will quiz the OP on this. By expressing my views on here, I am helping the OP in preparing for the inevitable.

Unbelievable! I still can't understand that you are continuing with this moronic line of posts.

At no time has the OP done anything to warrant this disgusting behaviour.

Nicki

sho_me_da_money wrote: »

I am sorry but I think you are to blame to some degree.

And to the people thinking that my posts aren't helping - I know for a FACT the police will quiz the OP on this. By expressing my views on here, I am helping the OP in preparing for the inevitable.

Utter nonsense! What is your basis for asserting this?

Speaking as a lawyer, I can assure Gwen that a previous brief flirtation with someone, or a failure to complain about sexually explicit emails are not a defence to a charge of indecent exposure, and therefore even if it were true that she had not nipped things in the bud earlier, this would be of no relevance to the offence which the police are investigating. However as Gwen has repeatedly said she told her colleague more than once that his email advances were unwelcome.

Your posts are verging on harassment shomedamoney and are of no help to Gwen. What exactly are you getting out of these repeated assertions that she is partially to blame?

gwen80

sho_me_da_money wrote: »

The part in bold is precisely why this ended up the way it did.

In your own admission you said you could cope with the inappropriate emails, which to me means that had he of NOT exposed himself (on that day), you would have "coped" with his modelling email and not reported him.

Do you not see how not reporting him OR "coping with his emails" led to his confidence growing and ultimately crossing the line [exposing himself]?

I am sorry but I think you are to blame to some degree.

And to the people thinking that my posts aren't helping - I know for a FACT the police will quiz the OP on this. By expressing my views on here, I am helping the OP in preparing for the inevitable.

You are incredible! *shakes head* By your own reasoning, should I now be contacting every man I've ever flirted with (or indeed chatted with, as that may be mistaken for flirting?), kissed or had a relationship with and say 'I don't want you to ever expose yourself to me, just so we're clear on that'.

Are bars, clubs and restaurants up and down the country full of men whipping their !!!!s out because a woman mildly flirted with them (or even flirted with them two years ago)? If not, why not??

Please tell me how I should have foreseen the indecent exposure? Go on, tell me. Does every man who sends inappropriate emails then go on to indecently expose himself? Does he?

Yet again...I asked for the inappropriate emails to stop. On the day of the exposure, he hadn't sent an inappropriate email since March. He then sent an inappropriate email and shortly afterwards exposed himself to me. He'd gotten married in November.

Again, how could I have known he'd indecently expose himself to me?

gwen80

sho_me_da_money wrote: »

MissD.

And it is for these very points that I am basing all my opinions/comments. There is a valid case to claim contributory negligence, if you will (sorry can't think of a better term)

I am not trying to be a trouble causer but I do believe that the above will come into question and the OP MUST prepare for this.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make, but I suspect it's utter rubbish and I'm not going to reply to it.

Regarding Miss D's post, I am going to PM her as I feel I've put quite enough information in this thread and I'm getting to the point where I may aswell post my name and who I work for.

whitewing

gwen,

It isn't your fault. He is responsible for his own actions and they weren't acceptable. You would have hoped that being married would have stopped him anyway, even if a work environment didn't.

You have done the right thing in reporting him to HR and the police. I'm proud of you, and I wouldn't for one minute want to be going through what you're going through.

hippygran

Gwen,

Sorry to have gone silent on you, but have been visiting family over the holiday and had no internet connection.

Gone on to thread tonight, and am really shocked by some of the posts.

Can I just say (having been there myself!) I KNOW exactly why you didn't immediately jump up and down screaming sexual harassment the moment this creep started.

I had NO previous history with the bloke in my case, BUT still didn't want to make a fuss, and felt (especially as I am no spring chicken, and am usually quite out-spoken) that I should be able to handle it myself. I too was worried about being called a troublemaker by others.

It took me THREE YEARS!!! I luckily didn't have daily contact with this person, usually only every two weeks or so, except when we were instructed to undertake special projects, which meant we had to work more closely for short periods.

I was VERY FIRM, and on occasions downright rude and nasty, but the incidents just accelerated over time.

To all the posters who say Gwen should have done this and that and acted earlier, all I can say is until you have been in the same situation, you have NO IDEA!!!!

Gwen you have been very brave. All the doubts and worries you are expressing are perfectly normal reactions. I felt the same. You will kick yourself one day for not doing this, that or the other, you will get angry at him, angry at yourself, you will probably even feel sorry for him on occasions.

You will NEVER be able to work him out, or understand, why he did that, and why it was directed to you in particular.

This is because he has a screw loose, and so you simply can't rationalise his behaviour, because HE is not rational!

You need to hold your head up high, take any offers of help, and you will find time will heal. You will get your faith back in people in time, but will probably find that (like me), you will have an inbuilt perv-alert for a long long time to come!

And I promise you, should you ever meet another creep, you will find it much easier to deal with because a) you will spot them easier and earlier and b) you will waste no time in telling them EXACTLY what you think of them STRAIGHT away.

Unfortunately good manners, politeness, not wanting to be seen to be making a fuss of 'nothing', sheer embarrassment etc etc means a lot of women find themselves in unpleasant, and sometimes dangerous situations, that they have no idea of how to deal with.

I would advise you not to close the thread WHILE IT IS STILL BEING USEFUL. Rather ignore the posts which are not helpful to you, and concentrate on the supportive one.

PM me whenever you need to, will be thinking of you Wednesday. X