O2 Stolen Phone, Huge Bill, Why am I Liable?

wantmemoney

http://www.cityoflondon.police.uk/CityPolice/Media/News/news071210.htm

A criminal gang who used stolen SIM cards to con mobile phone companies out of more than £2million has today been sentenced for a total of 26 years at Southwark Crown Court.

Ashok Kumar, from Twickenham, and Mohammed Akmal and Fahad Lone, from Birmingham, were yesterday found guilty of their part in a complex national and international telecom fraud.

The court heard how a joint City of London Police and O2 investigation found the men using fraudulently obtained bankcards and false utility bills to obtain pay monthly mobile phone contracts in stores across London.

The gang used the SIM cards to make unlimited calls from locations in Twickenham and Birmingham to their own premium rate international phone numbers, without ever paying the bill.

In some cases a ‘group call system’ was used to multiply the cost of the calls six-fold by making six calls at the same time from the same SIM card. These calls were usually logged after midnight to try and avoid detection.

From these lines multiple long duration calls were being made to numbers associated to Latvia, Estonia, Sierra Leone, Liechtenstein and Switzerland.

At the end of the month the phone companies were contractually bound to pay the bill, with part of the revenue being paid to companies owned or operated by the fraudsters who had made all the calls.

O2 has identified around 500 accounts that were using fraudulently obtained SIM cards, which have now been closed down by its investigations team.
Det Supt Bob Wishart, from the City of London Police Economic Crime Directorate, said:

"21st century policing presents new challenges as organised criminal gangs seek to exploit technological advances for illegal gain.

This complex and extensive international telecom fraud set up by KUMAR, LONE and
AKMAL provides further evidence of the challenges the counter fraud community is facing. But this successful prosecution shows what an effective force the telecom industry and police is when they work in collaboration to combat crime.

"I want to pay special tribute to the 02 investigators, who, along with my staff compiled an effective prosecution case on behalf of the Crown Prosecution Service. Their hard work has ensured these three fraudsters have been brought to justice and that mobile phone companies are more alert to the threat organised crime gangs pose to their business."

Ashok Kumar, 26, Mohammed Akmal, 46, and Fahad Lone, 38, were all found guilty of conspiracy to defraud and money laundering and were given concurrent prison sentences of five years each.

a quick question for the Moneysavingexpert's

JJ_Egan

Dont understand did one of them steal your phone ??

jje

eranou

The same way you would be liable if it was just the one person stealling your phone.

Jon_01

You're only liable until you report the sim lost/stolen. After that it's blocked and the phone blacklisted.

If you want the absolute why, it's in the T&C's. The network can't tell the phone's been stolen, you need to tell them. . .

Techhead_2

I don't understand the thread. The title refers liability for use of a stolen phone whilst the quote refers to fraudulently obtained SIM cards. I can't see a connection between the two.

wantmemoney

I don't understand the thread

My fault. Let me give a simplified picture. The following figures are not factual but it easier to understand the legal (consumer / criminal) question.

suppose:

The above criminals stole 51 O2 sims.

50 stolen from shops by deception (fraud/obtaining by deception)
1 stolen from a house (burglary)

They are both criminal acts and covered under UK Theft Law.

Irrespective of who they were stolen from and the method of the theft they were all used in an identical way to commit the above crime.

'conspiracy to defraud and money laundering'

bare in mind it was O2 that entered into a revenue sharing billing agreement with organised criminals.

Jon_01

wantmemoney wrote: »

bare in mind it was O2 that entered into a revenue sharing billing agreement with organised criminals.

The premium rate numbers being used are outside the UK. O2 (or any UK network) would have no idea what they were being used for.

The agreement being talked about is binding with all networks, but were not set up on O2 or in the UK.

Guys_Dad

To deal with the topic heading and not necessarily the OP, and to avoid deja vu, try reading here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2898034

wantmemoney

Jon_01 wrote:

Originally Posted by wantmemoney

bare in mind it was O2 that entered into a revenue sharing billing agreement with organised criminals.

The premium rate numbers being used are outside the UK.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23905105-hi-tech-gang-given-jail-for-pound-2m-o2-phone-scam.do
Southwark Crown Court was told how the three crooks founded Pixonyx Ltd, which provided phone lines for expensive international calls..

Company Name:
PIXONYX LIMITED

Company No: 05401161
Registered Office:
Incorporated: 22/03/2005
SUITE 36,
88-90 HATTON GARDEN
LONDON
UNITED KINGDOM
EC1N 8PN
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Company Status: Active

DIRECTOR'S CHANGE OF PARTICULARS / MR FAHAD LONE / 01/10/2009

I think you people should first study what 'international premium rate numbers' are, how they work, how/where they are terminated and how they are billed.

believe it or not I have.

Techhead_2

I'm afraid I still don't understand the point of the thread. There is no comparison between a fraudulently obtained SIM and a stolen SIM.
The rightful owner of a stolen SIM will report it missing within a few hours and it will be blocked.
A fraudulently obtained SIM could be used for weeks until the default is registered and the account blocked.

wantmemoney

Techhead wrote:

There is no comparison between a fraudulently obtained SIM and a stolen SIM.

Under UK law both have been obtained through theft.

Techhead wrote:

The rightful owner of a stolen SIM....

The rightful owner of the sims whether obtained through a fraudulent contract or obtained through a legitimate contract is actually the Network (O2 in this case).

I'm not totally sure about that but it's not important to the point I am trying to make. I'm interested in how they were used after the thefts and where the responsibility for the bills lie.

---

On all 51 sims huge premium rate revenue share bills were run up. Who were responsible for those bills.

In the case of the sims stolen from the shops:
Obviously the crooks but what part if any did O2 play. Should they have shown more 'due diligence' with who they were doing business?

In the case of the sim stolen from the house:
Obviously the crooks, but what part if any did O2 play. Should they have shown more 'due diligence' with who they were doing business with and whether that business was legitimate?

What share of responsibility rest with the customer?

Would a court decide the customer should bare all financial responsibility?
Would the Network Terms and Conditions stand up in this type of case?

Bare in mind that in this case O2 where billing on behalf of third party companies for premium rate services bought over the phone. It has nothing to do with making normal International calls.