MSE News: Tuition fees to hit £9,000 as Government wins vote

blue_monkey_2

Madz wrote: »

Blimey. Bitter much? I'm a student. I'm expected to be there from 9.30 - 5pm Mon-Fri so no spare time to work. I don't spend any money on booze, fags and takeaways. And if the country needs cash why don't they get Vodafone to pay their tax bill?

Not quite sure what I have to be bitter about tbh. Strange thing to say.

9.30 - 5pm, Mon - Fri? :rotfl: So get a bar job from 8pm til midnight - that gives you 7-8 hours to sleep, or work at the weekends. That'll help pay your way! One day you'll know what the real world is all about!! Bless you, it's going to be a shock I feel.

Do you think the money from Vodaphone is going to pay every single students fees for the foreseeable future? Because I don't.

blue_monkey_2

melancholly wrote: »

sorry - not a student any more, but don't let that get in the way of your stereotypes and insults. i don't see this as a fair and, more importantly, long term solution to the crisis in uni funding.

how about you stop shouting at students and realise how lucky you were to get through uni before fees. there were just as many dossers in your day; perhaps more so since they didn't pay a penny. how can you have this little empathy? i worked as a student, but i don't know many jobs that can earn £9000 for fees, plus all living expenses, plus leave time to study.

lib dems promised to oppose increasing fees. they have now increased them. maybe it isn't new (labour in 1997 anyone?) but i reserve the right to be annoyed about it!

fwiw, when i was a student i didn't smoke, have take aways or take drugs, and i drank on cheap nights within my budget. but don't let the facts get in the way of a nasty rant made up of gross generalisations!

smacks of pulling up the ladder once you've got on it.....

I didn't got to Uni and I never said I did. I went to college in the evenings, after working all day. So no, I never wasn on the ladder to pull it up.

And you have NOT got to pay £9000 as you'll be entitled to grants and you'll get to pay it back over a long term. If you earn nothing then the debt gets written off.

And what sort of budget was that? And how many nights. Because surely Grants are not there to pay for cheap nights of boozing?

I have children, if they want to go onto Uni - and I hope they do - then that is MY job to pay for them, I bought them into this world, they are already getting free education so if, as an ADULT, they still want to learn then we should be paying for it. We will go without to do so and we earn less than 25k pa - what is more, they will also be working where possible to help pay their own way in this world. However, I'll not be giving them noey for booze, if they want money for it then they'll have to earn it.

Sadly, the pot has run dry so something has to give, it means we have to pay our children to get through Uni then so be it. Uni is a CHOICE, and chouices should not be free, you should be pleased you got the opportunity but changes have to be made.

And not all courses cost 9k pa, do they?

Aless

To all those that say to the students get a job, my university (which I think is the joint highest rated in the country) did not and does not allow students to work during term time and I know it is not the only one. As I said it is one of the best in the world, probably top five and it is also the university that surveys have said students drink the most at. Imagine that, lots of clever hard working students that go out once or twice a week during term time and drink a lot, how deplorable! It clearly means they are no good wasters. That will never amount to anything, oh except maybe the leaders of all the main political parties, head of plcs, etc etc.

Those who say there are grants available, really, are they widely and readily available, show my where if you are not on school meals. They are not government funded so can be funded by private bodies but that is very hit and miss.

To be honest all of the people saying great, sound like people who have given no though to the real issues and are of the I am alright jack mentality. Fine, there are plenty of people the UK like that but there are plenty that think supporting others in society is a good thing. I think education is a good in itself and I am happy to pay for people to learn to think critically. In my reasonable short time since graduating I have more than paid back in tax any costs of my education.

One of the many reasons why I think the plans are dreadful is that where I went to university I did not know anybody whose parents did not pay their fees. The point of this is that if your parents can't pay your fees what do you do, damned to an impoverished life because your family is not rich enough? I think that is deplorable. One of the shocking things I saw was well off people milking the system. The people whose parents brought them flats worth £300k on graduating claimed hardship funds because their parents were divorced, they discounted the earners income and could make themselves out as impoverished and claimed thousands each year. It is rife.
I am so sick of the comments that all students are lazy and do nothing. If there is a lack of work it is the universities fault for not demanding more not the students fault.

bestpud

Aless wrote: »

To all those that say to the students get a job, my university (which I think is the joint highest rated in the country) did not and does not allow students to work during term time and I know it is not the only one. As I said it is one of the best in the world, probably top five and it is also the university that surveys have said students drink the most at. Imagine that, lots of clever hard working students that go out once or twice a week during term time and drink a lot, how deplorable! It clearly means they are no good wasters. That will never amount to anything, oh except maybe the leaders of all the main political parties, head of plcs, etc etc.

Those who say there are grants available, really, are they widely and readily available, show my where if you are not on school meals. They are not government funded so can be funded by private bodies but that is very hit and miss.

To be honest all of the people saying great, sound like people who have given no though to the real issues and are of the I am alright jack mentality. Fine, there are plenty of people the UK like that but there are plenty that think supporting others in society is a good thing. I think education is a good in itself and I am happy to pay for people to learn to think critically. In my reasonable short time since graduating I have more than paid back in tax any costs of my education.

One of the many reasons why I think the plans are dreadful is that where I went to university I did not know anybody whose parents did not pay their fees. The point of this is that if your parents can't pay your fees what do you do, damned to an impoverished life because your family is not rich enough? I think that is deplorable. One of the shocking things I saw was well off people milking the system. The people whose parents brought them flats worth £300k on graduating claimed hardship funds because their parents were divorced, they discounted the earners income and could make themselves out as impoverished and claimed thousands each year. It is rife.
I am so sick of the comments that all students are lazy and do nothing. If there is a lack of work it is the universities fault for not demanding more not the students fault.

Your experience is not the norm.

I do not know of one student whose parents did pay the fee and working is accepted in most universities.

The grants mentioned are student finance grants and you do not need to be at the free schools meals level to receive a full funding package from student finance.

If anything, it is students from wealthier backgrounds who have more to moan about when it comes to grants!

Sorry to say this but you are showing ignorance of the current system and your experience is a bit out of touch with that of most students.

Aless

You are right, tt is out of touch with most students because I went to one of the best universities in the country and the world. I can assure you those institutions are full of children from affluent families paying their children's fees. My basic belief is that elite universities of this country should not be limited to children of affluent families but it should be open to those with talent.

bestpud

Aless wrote: »

You are right, tt is out of touch with most students because I went to one of the best universities in the country and the world. I can assure you those institutions are full of children from affluent families paying their children's fees. My basic belief is that elite universities of this country should not be limited to children of affluent families but it should be open to those with talent.

I quite agree with you.

I do think the elite unis are more open than they have perhaps been in the past but the hike in fees may well deter less well off students because of the need to work. I sincerely hope not though!

We have been promised a better fundung package for those from low income backgrounds but the bottom line is, most students are going to leave with more debt.

The point I was making is the current system is quite generous to students from low income families and most universities do not discourage students from working so that is not out of the ordinary iyswim? In my uni, it was odd for a student not to work in fact.

The new fees should not be a barrier for most university applicants as there is no upfront fees to pay and most will still manage on a combination of student finance and part time earnings.

Aless

Term time working is prohibited at Oxbridge, they also do not let people do many degrees part time.

bestpud

Aless wrote: »

Term time working is prohibited at Oxbridge, they also do not let people do many degrees part time.

I know but I think they are the exception. That isn't the case at all for most universities, so you are talking about a fairly small percentage of students iykwim?

Aless

It maybe a smaller percentage but they are the most prestigious in the country and the ones for which the most talented people regardless of family wealth should aim and therefore are the most important to consider. It also is meant as a counter for those people saying oh, just do it part time, just get a job during term time. It is not possible so what are the suggestions for these people.

To be honest I care far more about people who should go to oxbridge or other taxing unis for taxing courses than a mass of students doing irrelevant degrees at poor universities - the latter should not be going to uni and they should not be persuaded from not going by high fees they should be persuaded out of going because there are viable alternatives. Unfortunately there are not viable alternatives for most young people at the moment and that is the problem. The policy is incoherent and that is a betrayal of young people.

bestpud

Aless wrote: »

It maybe a smaller percentage but they are the most prestigious in the country and the ones for which the most talented people regardless of family wealth should aim and therefore are the most important to consider. It also is meant as a counter for those people saying oh, just do it part time, just get a job during term time. It is not possible so what are the suggestions for these people.

To be honest I care far more about people who should go to oxbridge or other taxing unis for taxing courses than a mass of students doing irrelevant degrees at poor universities - the latter should not be going to uni and they should not be persuaded from not going by high fees they should be persuaded out of going because there are viable alternatives. Unfortunately there are not viable alternatives for most young people at the moment and that is the problem. The policy is incoherent and that is a betrayal of young people.

I disagree with that.

You are being elitist now.

There is more to HE than Oxbridge. True HE has been watered down but there are still many students working towards valuable degrees at other universities and doing paid work alongside.

Yes there are many students who should not be at university but it is wrong to suggest only those who make the top few universities are doing a worthwhile degree.

There is a lot wrong with HE at the moment but that doesn't mean we should disregard the majority of students in favour of a minority who (let's face it) have had better life chances before HE.